Why don't women like the Beach Boys?

Why don't women like the Beach Boys?

By Jeff on Saturday, September 25, 1999 - 11:01 pm:

Okay, I don't mean to offend the women on this board. God bless you; you're a rare lot, indeed.

It's just that in my experience, women tend not to appreciate the Boys, tend instead to dismiss them entirely. Can enjoying this music be gender related?

Right now, as I type this, my girlfriend is asleep in the next room. She's beautiful and smart and sexy and wonderful. I love her with all that I am, but I've got to say that we never, I mean NEVER listen to the music together that makes my heart sing.

She hates the Beach Boys' music. She thinks they're lightweight, all that silly nonsense. And the problem is, most women I've ever known share this mania. What's going on?

Maybe it's just something in me that always picks Beach Boy hating women. I dunno.

A careful reading of posts here over the last year or so suggests to me that other people have run into this phenomenon, too, though.

I would love to hear everybody's thoughts on this one.

By MCP on Sunday, September 26, 1999 - 02:05 am:

One possible reason is that the early BB stuff was male focused, surf, cars etc. Then there is the Pet sounds period...BW singing about what all young men go through.
Thirdly women are inferior to men

By nai_snosrap on Sunday, September 26, 1999 - 03:31 am:

Why bother trying to 'convert' people?

I'd rather keep all those gems of Brian's to myself, they're mine all mine!

By Jeanne on Sunday, September 26, 1999 - 07:05 am:

All right, you IDIOTS:

Female here. I LOVE the BBs/Brian Wilson. I have always LOVED the high male voice, falsettist, sopranist, whatever you want to call it.

I'd like to ask the first poster, how many men do you know in your personal life that love the BBs? Cause, I know one, and the rest of them live on this board. At BBs concerts, is the audience mostly men? At the BW concerts, has it been mostly men? PEOPLE in gereral don't love them.

The first poster may have a point about the subject matter of the early stuff putting some women off. And it is true that most of the posters on this board are men.

My brother-in-law has said to me before that he thinks that women in general don't like music as much as me. And I read that the most common type of genius is the male music prodigy. There actually might be some truth in what the first poster says.

I happen to be hetero-emotional, as well as heterosexual, which means that I prefer male company to female. The most gorgeous woman in the world is nothing next to the average guy. All these female singers bore me to death. I love the BBs at every phase (emphasis on BW) because I love them as boys, as young men, as adults, and now it's just Brian. And when I say love, being female, there's that extra edge on it that you men don't feel (if you're straight) So add that to that beautiful, gut wrenching, heart-twisting music, and the beautiful, gut-wrenching, heart-twisting vocals, and I am totally obsessed.
Loving men as I do, to hear those voices go from earthly manliness to angelic sweetness and back again-GOD. And I MEAN GOD.

But I too had overlooked the BBs for years. I just recently re-discovered them, but my response was immediate, strong and unignorable.

So I suggest to first poster that if this relationship does not work out, you use BBlover as your first criteria. After all, how sexy can your girlfriend really be if she does not want to make love to Don't Worry Baby, Don't Talk, etc?

But thanks for this question and giving me the opportunity to express my love without having to quote BB facts and minutia, which seems to be how most of the men do it. Don't get me wrong, I love reading it, but it's nice to read the male emotional response, from the few men who are willing to give it.

Brian, I adore you.

By David C. on Sunday, September 26, 1999 - 07:16 am:

I have to agree Jeff that in all my years I hardly ran into a woman that appreciated this music. It's so great to see the diehard women that often post to these boards because they really take a stand for what they know is good.

My wife always says "how can you listen to that stuff?...it all sounds the same...and my two daughters totally agree. My son watched parts of the BW Beacon concert video with me and at least enjoyed the band.

Growing up, I took most of the blasting from girls in my classes...one wrote in my yearbook, "David I'm sure we'll all forget the Beach Boys but how could we forget you?"...probably because I was so adamant that people should listen to the greatest music ever delivered. Even at reunions the girls can't believe I still like "this stuff" since 1964.

The guys, on the other hand, give me a bit more credit for sticking to my guns. And I have to say that with every concert it was the guys who I found to be the most interested in the music. The wives somehow were just going along for a night out, yawning halfway through. Again, I am totally grateful for every woman who does understand the depth of Brian Wilson. Cheers!

By local on Sunday, September 26, 1999 - 12:57 pm:

I play in a band that plays originals and covers and we're all guys and I notice that 70% or more of our audience at the shows (had one last night) are girls, and they like to dance. Nothing like looking up and seeing smiling, drunken, lovely ladies twisting and spinning and dancing a few feet in front of you and all around!!!!!!! WHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

By waves on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 09:36 am:

I have had girls tell me that the Beach Boys are old fashioned. I should get with the times as they say. I had one tell me that she didn't like them because they weren't rock'n'roll. I am sitting here writing this post, while listening to the Beach Boys in Concert from '74 on cd. I don't know they rock pretty well to me. I sometimes think however that she really has never heard the Beach Boys. She does however like The band that does the song THe Warmth of the Sun. I tried to tell her that it was the Beach Boys. "How could a surf band make such a beautiful song", she asked me. The only song by the Beach Boys she likes is Kokomo. While a good song, it pales in comparison to the rest of their music. I try not to complain, when I ride with her as she is my ride to and from school, when I go home on the weekends. I don't know however how much more of todays commercially orientated music I can take. I need help, I think I am going to go crazy.
The Beach Boys are the best and there is know denying it.

By Girlie Girl on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 11:58 am:

I think because female fans tend not to analyze the music and discuss the "formula" as much as the male fans do, we seem to be not involved.
Oh, but we are! We travel in packs and go to concerts together. We talk about them as people.
We love to dance. We love the music!
It is when we are a girlfriend of a Beach Boy fan that we tend to get bored with the subject. I went out with a BB fan and he bored me to tears with the chord structure and Brian's possible intentions!!! I just love them the way they are!

By janegirL on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 12:28 pm:

my honeybuns turned me on to the boys and now i drive him crazy! nyuk nyuk ! he always says "oh god...this again?"....i like cars and water...has there been a song made yet about the Wisconsin Dells Ducks?....huh?....i try to dance but it hurts when i bounce....i say if yer girl dont like the music....so what, keep playin it and sooner or later she'll either like it or leave...or she could do both?....dunnonothin....urglie...urglie :)

By Conspiracy Jim on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 01:03 pm:

My girlfriend loves the Beach Boys (although probably through my making tapes of all the capitol albums and box set more than anything). Imagine that; a beautiful six foot blonde 21 year old into the Beach Boys- some guys have all the luck (i.e Me!). Sod the California Girls, this is one British woman to knock them all out! We spent what was supposed to be our first date (just over a year ago) making out to Pet Sounds, and this winter and summer listening to our favourite stuff- she's into Brian Wilson as an artist, and knows what Mike and Bruce are doing isn't the Beach Boys ("aren't the important ones dead?" she naively, but perceptively, asked me when I told her they were still touring). I gave her a copy of Pet Sounds as a love token when we had to be spearated for universities 100 miles apart, and she totally dug it. Although she moans that I like music too much, she understands the importance of it. And if it means that just about the only thing we can listen to together is the Beach Boys, well, I'm not complaining!

By Bill on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 02:43 pm:

I have to second Jeff's observation. I have been a huge fan of Brian's music since the early '70's, and my buddies and I spent hours during our highschool and college years sitting around listening to the Beach Boys. But no matter how thoughtfully I've selected the tracks, I have never been able to interest a women in their music. Perhaps the Beach Boys music is essentially a white heteorsexual male experience.

By waves on Monday, September 27, 1999 - 04:20 pm:

Where did you find her. A tall woman who likes the Beach Boys. What a find. I wish you luck. I an not being sarcastic. I am 6'5", and would love to find a girl at least 6 foot. Oh well. I hope you realize what a rare find you truly have. I am not being sarcastic. I am being very sincere.

By tgfnyc on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 08:56 am:

At the risk of provoking the wrath of Jeanne, I have to admit that the only other female BB fans I know are the ones I met on this board. I find the ones who, like me, are fans of the post Pet Sounds era to be rarer still.

I just don't get it either.

By NE Pa on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 10:26 am:

I have to agree with Jeanne-people in general don't like the Beach Boys. I have met only one other person (male) who likes the BB's as much as I do and for the same songs. While some of my friends have been impressed (or surprised) by some of their music from the 70's, they still don't really get it. My brother thinks I'm a nut case. Aside from the above-mentioned male friend, the only other people I know of who get the music are on the ones who come to these boards. Either this music hits you or it doesn't. Just my opinion. ----- Marie

By White Cap on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 10:35 am:

Contrary to popular belief, I think
men are much more emotional than women.
Women let out surface shit like crying
to their friends because everyone's going
away to school, but I think men have emotion
that runs deeper than oceans. We hold them
in, (we must) and we confront them in
private, in our rooms, in our sleep, in
our car, in our MUSIC. Music can BREAK
a man in half. Tear him down to a child.
Sitting on the floor, crying, listening to those
beautiful melodies, wanting love, wanting
to give love, share love, feel, feel, feel.
Women like to dance to music, and have
beautiful rhythym, but I've never met
one where the music could kill them. Where
the music was EVERYTING. Where music had
the power to strip them of walls and masks.
For my male friends, music saves them. It
purges them of deep desperation and aguish in this idiotic world where men can't cry.

By Guardian Angel on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 01:35 pm:

MY girlfriend Dana really likes the group. See, the thing is, most people know of the group only by the surf stuff. Dana's favorite stuff by the group is from Wild honey up to Holland, even more than Pet Sounds. Actually, if the group would've had a different name, they'd be taken more seriously.

By el diablo on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 03:02 pm:

Jeanne, Will you marry me?

By Jeanne on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 04:20 pm:

el diablo, I'm 80 years old and weigh 400 pounds. Oh the lovely anonymity of these boards...

TGFNYC, I'm rarely wrathful. i answered the first post in a big hurry and I've changed my mind since then. I think there is something to the notion that BBs is a white, male, heterosexual experience. I'm just glad I have enough maleness (or whatever) in me, to love the music.

I've been trying to analyze it all day, but White Cap did a much better job than I ever could. Thanks, White Cap, for your response. I've been wanting to read something like that from a man ever since I got on this board.

Lets thank God that there is a man like Brian with such an honest soul who is capable of pouring it out all over us.

But guys, you don't have to put us down. Not all of us. SOME of us do feel that music. And I'd love to spend extended lengths of time discussing the chords, harmonies, meaning, etc.

I love all men who love the BBs.

By waves on Tuesday, September 28, 1999 - 07:18 pm:

The Beach Boys in my opinion are and should be the greatest most influential band in Rock. They are a lot better then the Beattles, The Stones or anyone else. They know how to writer soul music. They are good on feels.

By Gremmie on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 12:03 am:

Generalities are dangerous, nevertheless, men seem to be more inclined than women to trip heavily on a band. That said, I've come to believe that the only people who dont like Brian's music are those who haven't really taken the time to listen to it.

I began my relationship with the boys in 1973, and since that time numerous (not to brag) girlfriends of mine have been converted/enlightened (made to understand?) the power of the music. I'm sure they are, for the most part, grateful for the exposure.

By ron k of L.A. on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 01:00 am:

yes it's true. My wife, who claims to be so eclectic hip, and also a great lover of men, hates the BB's and Brian. Although she's consenting to go with me to see Brian here in L.A. The guy was right on. Men are more emotional then women. Brian touches all the things we love, hate , despair, have joy for. Our fears and loves. An he/we all LOVE women!! what guy can't relate to that? And Brian's a regular guy like us. He touches our souls. I tried to play Pet Sounds for my woman and she just yawned. Only saying that she hated the phrasing in "I just wasn't made.." It's sad but Iguess the BB's and Brian are just for men to appreciate.

By tgfnyc on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 08:44 am:

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that your post was wrathful. I just didn't want to piss you off by making further generalizations about the musical tastes of women.
:) Nancy

By Gordon Baker on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 03:03 pm:

Me and my work buddy are going to see Brian Wilson in LA but his wife just sort of laughed at the idea of going with us. The Beach Boys are a guy thing but history could have been different if Brian could have had his creativity unrestricted and do his thing to appeal to everyone. He could have reached a larger female audience had he been free to do more with his girl group he wrote and produced for "The Honey's". By the way, does anyone out there have anything by The Honey's? How is it? It's impossible to find.

By Reggie Dunbar on Wednesday, September 29, 1999 - 04:05 pm:

I have some of the Honeys stuff-it's OK, not great. A
How about the Spring album, Gordon? It features Marilyn Wilson and her sister Dianne. Produced by Brian and David Sandler.

By janes screaming on Thursday, September 30, 1999 - 06:32 am:

i kinda remember nothin but young girls screamin, cryin, faintin and rushin to get autographs back when?.....urglie...urglie

By Tybalt on Thursday, September 30, 1999 - 01:35 pm:

In their "teeny bopper" days--yes,of course.
You need a little cordial perspective, the guys were heatrthrobs in those early days. They were fodder for the young girls in the way that NSYNC, Backst Boys,et.al are now. Once Brian's genius (and Carl and Denny too) came to the forefront,the squeals and screams died down. Of course, introspective music rarely produces the same results as the surf/hot rod stuff. Same was true for The Beatles at first.
I think women like the BB's as much as guys do.but probably on some different level. I'll bet girls with BB song title names (Rhonda,Wendy, Barbara Ann,etc) have always related on the level. Alot of the early stuff was clearly aimed at guys. Read the lyrics to "Little Deuce Coupe". Also most girls didn't want to be "California Girls".
Choices I would offer for women to listen to:
"Don't Hurt My Little Sister" "Kiss Me Baby" and "Don't Worry Baby"--tender stuff. Avoid some of the macho strut like "Male Ego" and Hey Little Tomboy."

By littleduecejane on Friday, October 1, 1999 - 06:21 am:

im not braggin babe so dont put me down....but i've got the fastest set of .....in town...when someone comes up to me they dont even try....cause if SHE had a set o wings man i know SHE can fly?....that was my first song that i learned...besides to this day i faint, cry, scream and carry on....i love all of the songs...its nice to meet you all...urglie...urglie

By a Pisces Lady... on Friday, October 1, 1999 - 08:28 am:

I Love the Beach Boys because:

I like my gender being a topic that has a positive note written about it. I am a “Girl On The Beach,” a “Surfer Girl.” I can relate to “And Your Dream Comes True.” When my boyfriend found a seashell and gave it to me I identified with “Your Summer Dream.”

I can’t recall Brian or his co-writers penning anything negative about females.

Many of the Beach Boy tunes are not gender related...”Wouldn’t It Be Nice,” “God Only Knows,” “Kiss Me Baby,” just a few that I love and could be sung by a woman...I am the chick by my guys side in “Dance, Dance, Dance.” When Denny sang “Do You Wanna Dance,” I said... “Yea! I wanna dance.”
Too many BB songs I can ID with to mention...

Ahhhh!!! The BB harmonies are what I really like. I can go into a trance just letting their voices carry me away to distant places.

Being a musician, I really like the chord patterns and changes that are so intricate compared with other songs from the 60's-70's...Brian was an inspiration to me for learning how to play the piano, as well as Carl for his guitar licks that I picked up on...I love this type of music.

Last but not least, Beach Boy music makes me SmiLE when I hear it...it picks me up...it is a shot of adrenalin...a real stimulus...

Yup! I am a girl and I am a Beach Boy fan...that is something that can never be taken from me.

Thanks Brian/Beach Boys and all who made the music possible for writing some cool and hip songs about girls that make us feel special, and thanks for doing it with style and class...

Peace and Love...

A PL...

By Cordelia on Friday, October 1, 1999 - 09:43 am:

Tybalt speaks of the girls screaming for the Boys in their youth and the screams quieting as the guys and the music matured. That's true, but don't forget that even later on, the guys (especially the Wilson brothers, but not just them) still set female hearts aflutter. It wasn't screams then, but deeply-felt sighs and loud cheers. Carl was still thrilling us gals late into his all-too-brief tenure here in the world.
What was it about them that attracted us women?
Early on the babitude factor counted quite a bit, but it was their singing and what they were singing that kept us fans. Someone above mentioned being thrilled by hearing male falsetto singers -- I'm that way too -- and the BBs had two of the best in Brian and Carl, plus they had Bruce and Alan. And the voices were so perfectly matched to one another, the blend so heavenly.

By Gordon Baker on Friday, October 1, 1999 - 04:46 pm:

Hey PISCES LADY, there is one negative girl song Brian wrote about a good girl gone bad. Pet Sounds "Caroline No". Supposedly about an old girlfriend of his but alot of Pet Sounds is bittersweet. That's probably the only one.

By a Pisces Lady... on Friday, October 1, 1999 - 09:35 pm:


It is interesting that you find "Caroline No" a negative song. You may be correct. Regardless, it depends on personal interpretations and opinions.
I interpret that song as a poem full of questions facing the reality of young love growing apart but not as a "good girl gone bad." One person maturing into a woman, maybe intentionally losing interest in someone she once was close to while the other person can't accept the situation. It is a nice thought though... wanting to bring a good relationship "back once they have gone." It is a song of change for one reason or an other. Someone losing their innocence (I probably read this line somewhere) while the other wants to hold onto the past. Lost relationships such as this are a part of most peoples lives it seems. Sad on one hand..but reality on the other. In the teenage years, it is very common for one person or the other to go a different direction. The lyrics seem subjective to me but not negative :)
Regardless, "Caroline No" is a beautiful song and I wonder how many souls it has healed.

Peace and Love...

a PL...

Extended note: I couldn't imagine anyone else attempting to add justice to that song until I heard Timothy B. Schmit do it. What a compliment!!!

By Sumner on Sunday, October 3, 1999 - 02:15 am:

Why don't women like the Beach Boys?
As far as I am concerned, I can say that I LOVE the Beach Boys.
I can play the Pet Sounds album, close my eyes and
let the music take me to the paradise. Paradise is
world without wars, full of peace and love. You agree?

All the best,

remember, paradise is a state of mind, ...

By reginald on Sunday, October 3, 1999 - 08:51 pm:

It was interesting reading somewhere that the original lyric to "Caroline No" as penned by Tony Asher was actually supposed to be "Carol I Know", but Brian misheard it. If this is true, I wonder whether the lyric in the second verse "Caroline You" was supposed to be "Carol I knew"? IMHO this interpretation puts the "blame", as it were, squarely on the first person (i.e. Carol just changed / matured, but Brian never got over it).

And please, some more hints to the urglie urglie mystery would be nice.


By ron k of la on Monday, October 4, 1999 - 01:17 am:

i still think despite what Brian says, Caroline No WAS Marilyn. Oh Mar-i-lyn noooo....

By doctorsounds on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 08:00 am:

dear ron, I think caroline was marilyn's sister or maybe the same woman that he named wendy after; either way it is a masterpiece, as is "she knows me too well"

By Gordon Baker on Thursday, October 7, 1999 - 04:12 pm:

OK Pisces lady, so Caroline loosing that happy glow may be a loss of innocence but if I were a girl and a cheerleader, "Pom Pom Playgirl" would seem negative and sexist to me or am I being too politicaly correct? By the way, that song rocks!

By dnowak on Tuesday, October 12, 1999 - 10:19 am:

hey little tomboy and all dressed up for school are both slightly lecherous in tone.

By Iain Boyle on Thursday, October 14, 1999 - 07:34 pm:

I have introduced 3 lady friends to Pet Sounds, they were not fans of the Beach Boys or Brian Wilson's until after that introduction. Brian lets loose with his emotions on that album and can use music to get to your emotional soul with his chord changes and progressions, especially the double bass chords. One of these ladies is quite a piano player and she tried to play tthe chords herself after just listeningto the music, her comments as she was not getting them until I bought the sheet music for her " Damm it sounds like simple chords until you try to play them, he uses chords and chord changes that no one else would even think about, and IT WORKS." A previous poster commented on it being a male thing that Brians music stirs the male emotion, well we all have both male and female parts to us so maybe the Ladies that can relate to this emotionally are more in touch with their male side, ( not that, that makes them any less feminine, maybe it makes them even more so that they can get to the male part of their emotions without it effecting their femininity.)

Love and Mercy
urglie urglie
Iain B

By Jeanne on Friday, October 15, 1999 - 04:15 am:

Iain B, If you really want to have mercy on us, explain "urglie"

By positraction 413 on Sunday, October 17, 1999 - 07:05 pm:

I live in nebraska, and the girls here dont know much of anything about them, probaly because it
reminds them of the beach,wearing bikinis,,etc,they always sang about good looking women, well, the truth is,most women are so severely overweight here, they would not be caught DEAD near a beach in a bathing suit,so I guess we guys will just keep on singing about
sexy chicks and our cars, by the way, I drive a corvette,just like their songs,and it feels great.

By Surfer Rose on Sunday, October 17, 1999 - 07:35 pm:

Well, I am a woman, and I have LOVED the Beach
Boys ever since I bought a Greatest Hits album
when I was a teenager (and that was about 24 years ago).
I am from Spain, and moved to Nebraska 6 years ago, and the last guy here is right. People do not look very healthy here. But I think that the Beach Boys are the most underrated musical artists ever, but that's fine, 'cause I they will ALWAYS live in my heart, and the fill me with joy every time I hear them.
I agree with Jeanne, the world don't seem to care.
It's not a girl thing. People do not look at the music, they just see the "beach angle" and do not look at the artistic depth of their total work. We need to pray for them, they do not know what they are missing!!!!!!!!!!!!
White Cap is right too. My experience has been that guys seem to be more emotional about music. And Brian Wilson is a master at stirring up emotions. And he said: Listen, listen, listen....

By Jon Read on Tuesday, October 19, 1999 - 08:14 am:

I (like some people) don't think it is a girl thing. I've watched this debate brew for about a month and am interested in the replies like a)after Wild honey & beyond a change of name for the group (although unfeasable)would probably have brought better success - its an image thing b) some girls simply DONT want to be associated with the bikini thing - in England where I am its too bloody raw to wear a bikini without dying c) what about a general lack of forgiveness after the build up to the release of SMiLE - people were promised so much if they were to believe the press (Crawdaddy etc) and then 10 months later mixed messages from Smiley Smile
(by the way, SMilE is the best thing I've ever heard)
d) the confusion in that the message of the music may be seen as "Girls on the Beach" etc far more than the fact (or overlooking the fact) that the music became increasingly talented & imaginative

Its difficult to say whether men analyse more than women. There is a problem for men in that the stereotyping of macho macho and all that, I suppose they are less likely to open up. But when they do...............well, comments please!

My wife is a Beatles fan, goes to conventions everywhere and yet she don't get it either. I haven't heard any of the women say this but my wife thinks the Beatles were better looking. Was this the problem? I think not but whatever the answer, what a shallow world...

Well done White Cap, I suppose it's unfair to pick people out because everyone has said interesting things.
If anything, the last person got it right when they said they dont know what they are missing!
Check out the "tree" on Christianity (I didn't think it was my scene, still not sure)to see the effect on peoples lives.

When something is wonderful, you DO want to try and "convert" the people you love

Love to BW/BBs and ALL fans

By Dave the Rave on Sunday, October 24, 1999 - 08:39 am:

I think that the reason why most women don't like The Beach Boys, or The Beatles, or The Who, or The Kinks, or The Stones or any good music for that matter, is that most women are full of sh$t, sorry am I allowed to swear here. Most of the girls I've met, and believe me, it's a lot, have never talked about films, or music, or anything interesting for that matter. Brian Wilson has touched me more than any women, apart from my mom (and no, I'm not gay). Ask any ardent Brian Wilson male fan, and most of them will say something similar, whether you like it or not.

By Jeanne on Sunday, October 24, 1999 - 10:35 am:

Dave, I talked to you once on the blue board. I'll ignore the insult and welcome you anyway. I don't know any man in my flesh and blood life who talks about music/film. That's why we all need the boards, right?

By Billy K. on Sunday, October 24, 1999 - 11:01 am:

It always seemed to me that there were more
female Beach Boys fans than male.......There are
a lot of men that have this thing about being too
macho to like the Beach Boys.......

By Amy Proctor on Monday, November 8, 1999 - 07:42 pm:

My husband LOVES the Beach Boys. I used to when I was a kid. Now they just irritate me. There are 3 basic reasons why women don't dig the Boys. 1) The men in our lives don't just like the Beach Boys, they LOVE them. It becomes a competition of affection. Case in point, look how many of you are on this BB instead of spending time with your wives. 2) The Beach Boys are self absorbed (albieght very talented and entertaining) and immature in nature, singing about boy stuff that seems to keep our husbands rather boyish and immature. 3) With the exception of Melissa Ethridge and K.D. Lang, most women I know don't sing lyrics like, "I dig a French bikini", "I wish they all could be California girls", etc. And the rest of us hetro women aren't particulary fond of our guys singing "Two girls for every boy!!" It's really that simple.

By Grenade on Monday, November 8, 1999 - 08:28 pm:

What's simple is your evaluation of the Beach Boys by quoting lyrics from the first few years of their career. This is actually a problem for a lot of people. They just don't realize how complicated, beautiful and intricate the music was (even though it sounded simple and immature), and you seem to ignore that fact that they made music for a number of years after the songs you mentioned. Anyone with ears couldn't ignore that fact. Ironically, these boys singing "Boy Stuff" and leading us men into temptation (and ignoring you in the process) changed the world. Their influence on the music world (if only the Beatles) is so huge, it has secured their place in the rock'n'roll hierarchy. If women don't like the Beach Boys, it doesn't matter to me.

By Billy K. on Tuesday, November 9, 1999 - 11:12 am:

Amy, I can understand you being irritated about the "two girls for every boy" Southern California deal, as I have dealt with the "mirror image" of that, halfway around the world. Athens, Greece is not the place for a straight, single guy like
myself to go. Women rave about that place, but with an overabundance of hot looking guys who are
charmers. With the "shoe on the other foot", I
can totally understand your point of view......
...........It is kind of interesting that you mentioned about love for the BB music "competing against the spouse"....I will say, firsthand that it is true, not just in your case. I have a friend of mine whose wife has the same perception as yours. And it is understandable, to an extent---most men usually have some kind of "thing" to be obsessed with. But let's look at the other side of the coin---would you rather see him be a fanatic of a particular sports team, or wrestling, or go to strip joints or play poker all the time?

By Wild Honey on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 11:35 am:

I'd have to say for me, too....and it's tough balancing my BB and my bf.....actually i would love for him to be a fanatic about something....anything! just so he wouldn't feel so left out all the time.

By Wils Honey on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 11:44 am:

I am A WOMAN!!! and brian wilson's music reaches out to me....and i DO understand his message....I do NOT need a Y chromosome to understand the musical impact that brian and the boys have made. and i DO talk about films, music, sports, and other issues. I'm VERY intersted in the MUSIC of the beach boys and brian wilson. Brian is my hero, and all i do is listen to all his wondrous compositions and get angry at his overlooked genius!!! i try to show people the beauty of their harmonies and the amazing music....so don't judge EVERY woman based on what a few superficial bitches say.....we're all fans here, so don't get all sexist with me now.....i study them like a subject in school! i'm serious about them. I'm always looking for more info on them and i love to discuss brian's production style, musical messages...who wrote what...etc.

SO, not all women are ditzes...and i'm sure not all men are assh*les.....despite the previous posts.

By Wild Honey on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 11:46 am:

The above post is WILD HONEY

i misspelled it. *duh*

By Amy Proctor on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 12:39 pm:

Grenade, I wasn't evaluating the Beach Boys, but evaluating why I believe women don't like the Beach Boys as much as men do. You mistook my statments and forgot the purpose of my opinion. I do understand that the Beach Boys are VERY talented and that their music is interwoved with beautiful harmonies, fun songs and deep human inspection. However, as a woman I find it hard to fully enjoy the music and get irritated by the self absored male lyrics as well as those about girls in bikinis. That isn't just their early music, and it spans to their most recent music. I did enjoy Imagination as a sweet, more interesting version of the early Beach Boys music and find it soothing. But overall, I stand by what I said.

By Amy Proctor on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 12:45 pm:


Good point, except I wouldn't have married the kid of guy you described as going to stripe joints. In fact, my husband started the post on this board about Christians on the BB...read it.Still, thanks for understanding the female point of view!

By Ms. Terious on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 03:49 pm:

I'm a woman who LOVES the Beach Boys!! It has everything to do with the sound of their voices rocking in harmony and very little to do with their lyrics. Man, those guys could SING!!! As others have said here, their music touches my soul in ways other artists don't.

Mr. Terious, bless him, is tolerant of my fannishness.

By John W. Proctor on Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 08:53 pm:

To Amy Proctor:
I love you!

By Jeanne on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 05:02 am:

Amy, It's just so strange that you use your gender as an explanation of why you find it hard to enjoy the music, because "as a woman" I find the music irresistible. (I don't mean you're strange) It's an interesting problem. I say as a woman, but maybe not. Maybe as a person.

"Self Absorbed"? as opposed to what? You see it as self absorbed, yet so many people have stated that it is music that speaks to them personally, that they feel Brian is speaking TO them directly, that Brian got them through troubled times...

Listen to Busy Doing Nothing. Brian talking about the minutia of his life? No, Brian talking about OUR lives, expressing so perfectly something we have all been through-that hopeful anticipation of the loved one, with a little doubt thrown in as he does so often. Such humility.

He has the ability to offer himself to us in a way that is not self absorbed at all but very giving.

By Divorce Court on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 06:54 am:

Most women are self absorbed and immature in nature, and feel a need to "compete" for their mans affections, which Amy has pointed out very nicely. If only they would join their man, instead of feeling a need to "compete" with something that he loves, we would then have world peace.

By Wild Honey on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 03:52 pm:

uh, yeah right....divorce court...except that *I'M* not competing....i'm a woman who loves the beach boys!!! *S*

By charlie brown on Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 08:19 pm:

i'm a stone-cold bb fan and my wife doesn't
get it. that's ok. i think most casual
listeners see the band as sunshiny-poppy, all
about surfing, not deep. let's face it, the
songs were meant to be bright and enjoyable,
and some people just don't care to look
beyond that. hey, fun is in, it's no sin...ya
know? but it's not just women. frankly, i
don't know many men or women who admit a bb
obsession. maybe it was those awful clothes.
the band has been sartorially challenged
since the days when murry wilson dressed

By Surfer Girl on Wednesday, November 17, 1999 - 01:40 pm:

Okay...NOT TRUE! I am female! I couldn't adore them more! I EVERYTHING I see...if it's the 5th release of Greatest Car songs just because it may have a different picture! Their music is almost ALL I listen to. I have trouble finding GUYS to support my musical taste! I love their voices, and think Brian was a genius! As most! And I think all the others were talented! It's not "women" in general. I have to be one of the most devoted fans. Heck, I've never even met Brian face to face but I'd give my life for him! There music is deeper and more heartfelt than anything now, and a lot of at their time! But..I'm one of those odd people who happens to be a female and a teenager(Yes, one of those!) Who thinks they are the best thing in the world! What girl couldn't love Brian's music on Today/PetSounds especially? I do my homeowrk to the, I clen the house to them, I ride in the car to them, I listen to them all the time! I work out to them! It's not females!

By waves on Wednesday, November 17, 1999 - 05:30 pm:

To the lovely lady who posted that she loves listening to The Beach Boys in her car. I would love to meet you. I am also into the Beach Boys and I am sick of people telling me that they ar enot rock'n'roll. If nopt then what are they? I am telling you I have been a fan since I was in the 6th grade.( I am now a junior at Penn State). The Beach Boys music I think is on a higher plane even then pop. It something that hasn't been defined yet. Their music is well beyond its years. Their music will be known well into the next century. As for woman liking them, I am a male and I love them. I am the ONLY one in my family who does. Everyone thinks I am crazy. My female friends have told me that I should get with the times. I can't help it. I can only listen to Shania Twain for so long.( although I can lok at her body any time) I think if the deejays today stopped playing commercial crap an dactually played stuff like Forever, I Can Hear Music, or Baby Blue. There is a lot of good music out there that should be played.

By SHEILA LORRAINE on Thursday, November 25, 1999 - 05:33 am:


By tuff jane on Monday, November 29, 1999 - 08:25 am:

last night i asked a good buddy if he liked the beach boys .....he said "no" ...i asked why ? his reply "they are too, you know....candy".....i bet he went home and put on a bb album ....he's a tough guy that rides a harley, (tatoos and all) ....urglie...urglie

By Jeneanne on Tuesday, November 30, 1999 - 06:50 pm:

I'm a black woman who digs Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys. I also like The Roots (hip hop), Bob Marley and The Wailers (reggae), Joni Mitchell (folk/jazz), and Coltrane (jazz), among other artists. So please be careful not to pigeon-hole others. It ain't cool and it doesn't do you a whole lot of good as a person.
Peace out!

By apology is in order on Wednesday, December 1, 1999 - 03:09 pm:

Jeneanne, we have been guilty of that on a couple of occasions. Sorry!

By Jeanne on Saturday, December 11, 1999 - 06:17 am:

I finally saw Shania Twain on TV. UGH. What a trite performace by a sexless little girl. And what a stupid undiscerning audience, what a bunch of sheep. Brian put across every emotion out there and he never took his clothes off or gyrated or pranced around like an idiot. I never could understand why women want to watch other women being or attempting to be provocative. Why would I want to watch Madonna, for crying out loud? She's a woman, I'm a woman, so what is she going to show me? Nope, give me the real thing--Brian's honest expression of all those emotions he is incapable of hiding or lying about, channeled through his musical genius.

By new executive on Wednesday, December 15, 1999 - 04:00 pm:

I really respect you Jeanne, but I must disagree regaridng Shania Twain. I think she has something very special, both as a performer and a writer, as well. Her songs have those special hooks that make them very memorable. As a performer she may be a little lame with all that prancing around on stage that she does. But, I wouldn't call her sexless. I find her very appealing to look at, in fact.

By Jeanne on Wednesday, December 15, 1999 - 06:58 pm:

Well, OK. Your a man. I guess it's a guy thing!

By new executive on Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 06:46 am:

You're funny, with an obviously good sense of humor. Maybe it is a guy thing, but I noticed a whole lot of women at her show, which was on TV, looking like they were really grovin' to her music. She is pretty good. But maybe, just maybe, she's not good in bed -- gotta try to find something wrong with her...Smile.

By Dr. Jimmy on Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 01:27 pm:

No, it's not a guy thing. I'm a guy (last I checked), and Twain doesn't do anything for me. :-)

By Jeanne on Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 04:43 pm:

But see, New Exec, that's what I was trying to explain that I don't understand. Why are WOMEN grovin' to her? I don't get that part. I guess it's a chick thing, and I'm not a chick! But my main point I guess is that Brian's music speaks for itself-he didn't/doesn't(and wouldn't for that matter)get on stage and shake his ass or anything like that. All that stuff just gets so old. I have heard that Mike Love sometimes has (shudder)cheerleaders onstage...but I didn't mean to insult anybody. Twain seems like all the rest, but I'm not looking at her through your eyes! Or with your hormones.

By new executive on Friday, December 17, 1999 - 05:25 am:

I understand where you're coming from, Jeanne, and I wouldn't -- even for a second -- compare what Brian has to Shania Twain. However, I do think that her music has a definate appeal to it. I also, think it's great that she's a pretty as she is, but I honestly didn't know what she looked like when I first heard of her.
Brian's music has an riviting soul to it. It doesn't matter if he shakes, twists, rocks, or rolls on stage when he's presenting it. The music still will move you, regardless. Hell, he can sit on stage and not move -- which isn't far from what he actually did on his last tour -- and the music will still be wonderful. There's no mistaking that fact. He doesn't need the sizzle to sell his steak.
However, Twain does do all the aforementioned. Yet, her music still has merit.
As for the hormome part, didn't I once read that you would love to do something very sexual to my buddy, Brian in one of your posts? Hey, I think it's great that ladies still look at the big guy as a verile hunk. That's really cool to me. I hope you get your wish.

By Gary L. on Friday, December 17, 1999 - 04:32 pm:

Jeanne,I agree with you-that Shania Twain's music basically sucks.It lacks originality,depth,and is
meant to be listened to mostly on a physical and
superficial level.That's also the problem with many other artists in today's music-no real creative and original ideas,just an endless parade of musical copy cats.If many of today's young people(under 30)had better taste the BB would probably be as popular today as they were in their hay day.

By Jeanne on Friday, December 17, 1999 - 06:37 pm:

Uh,New Exec, you're making me blush, I'm sure it couldn't have been me that said anything, I'm much too demure. It had to have been Wild Honey!

Brian was never selling himself, he was out to make the listener feel loved(his own words as you know) and to access the spiritual.

I wonder what Shania's mission statement is. But let's not argue! (And excuse me but I remember a certain post of yours on the Pet Sounds board, dude.)

By Jeanne on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 10:48 am:

Gary L. Yeah, there's an awful lot of derivative music and just plain covers of the old stuff. What was I listening to the other day that suddenly went into The Supreme's "Where Did Our Love Go"? The thing is, it really worked. I just want people to know that the guy took it from the Supremes. I hate people like Puff Daddy being able to make a career doing what he does. (don't mind Weird Al, though.)

I feel I don’t listen to top forty enough to have a very educated opinion. Nevertheless, I share your feelings

In the case of Shania and that type, there's a lot of focus on sex and if people get turned on they assume the music is good. (No offense N. E.) But it's so easy to do, a certain drum beat, bass line, somebody wiggling around on stage.

However, I can't hold the under 30 set more responsible than the over 30 set. If anything, it's the over 30 set (why is 30 the delineation?) that ought to know better. Why doesn't Brian have a larger following from my age group? We came up with better music IMHO, but today, everything on the radio is formatted. In the late 60s early 70s, you had DJs on progressive stations who were allowed to pick what they played, and they researched and listened to obscure bands and they had the power to make a band famous. How much independence do DJs have today? Young people are at the mercy of what the industry offers them.

As for why more young people don't like the BBs, well I'd like to ask them. We've had some young posters talk about how they became fans and how their friends think they're crazy. I'd like an analysis of it. What about the BBs/BW do you not like? What does the music say to you that turns you off? If the average kid out there thinks that Mike Love represents Brian's body of work, well, that's part of the problem.

Also, Brian is rarely macho. A boy/young man who is using music to help him express and learn about his maleness, as it is defined and marketed today, is going to dismiss Brian's music as sweet, in the sickly, insipid sense without really LISTENING. (By the way, it drives me crazy when people talk about Brian and Burt Bacharach in the same breath. They are light years apart.)

Brian is rare. He's just a rare being. His music is rare. Just some of us get it. Seems like maybe the whole western paradigm would have to fall for the average person to get it.

By Jeff on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 11:28 am:

Well put, Jeanne. I started this thread a couple of months ago and have been reading the posts with great interest and glee. I think maybe you've hit the closest to the core of the problem. I don't know if you were kidding, but I have to say that your observation that "the whole western paradigm would have to fall for the average person to get it" rings true.

We're talking about great art that is at odds with most people's socially-constructed reality and is therefore, perhaps, frightening.

Could it be that Brian Wilson's music is unintentionally subversive?

I have more thoughts on this, but I can't seem to get them down correctly. I keep writing paragraphs and deleting them. Dang it!

Maybe the music is just too pure.

By new executive on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 12:07 pm:

Dear Jeanne,
I am not sure what post you are referring to on the Pet Sounds board, but nonethelss, I didn't mean to argue with you.
I am preety impressed though that I got you to blush for me. Smiley smile, here.

By Jeanne on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 04:41 pm:

Jeff--You're the guy that sent us women scrambling to defend our status as fans! I hope now with your approval I can be admitted into the exclusive brotherhood of Brian:)

I was perfectly serious. Look at the Western Paradigm: man as the crown of creation, woman second best, the earth subdued, materialism, competition, linear time and logic. Sound like Brian?

Or turn it around, maybe if enough people listened and HEARD the music, it would all fall down.

I think you said it fine, great art IS subversive. And I agree about the fear factor. Brian is open, honest and vulnerable. People tighten their hearts against those emotions; we're all so jaded and sophisticated. It's hard to say, I've been typing and deleting myself.

But unintentional? I wonder. I'd really like to talk to him. Yeah, talk philosophy with Brian!

By Jeanne on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 04:53 pm:

New Exec, the board is for discussing and yes arguing respectfully. Sometimes people have to agree to disagree, that's what I meant. You SHOULD challenge me if you disagree.

Actually it's the second time you made me blush. How could you forget that post? You men are so cavalier.

By Jeff on Saturday, December 18, 1999 - 08:53 pm:

Jeanne: Nope, you of all people don't need my approval to join the club. :-) That's the thing, the women who post on the board clearly love Brian's music. I just wish you were the rule instead of the exception. And by the way, you were right on with your early post where you observed that, really, not too many folks of either gender like the Beach Boys. Ah, well.

Here's why I say the subversive element is unintentional: Standard rock and roll is so predictably "subversive" and it's that surface level of rebellion that so many people seem to respond to. With Brian's music, it seems to me, there's very little that is contrived or self-conscious. It's like it comes straight through him from the cosmos. I think it's the lack of *intentional* subversion that makes his music so incredibly powerful. It's just the real thing.

I don't know, just a hypothesis.

What do you think?

Anyhow, happy holidays to you and everybody else out there!

By new executive on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 08:22 am:

Dear Jeanne,
You mean that I made you blush the first time merely by calling you sweet for helping me navaigate back to this board?
Wow, you are a very responsive woman and I must tell you, I am quite impressed with that -- really I am!
And yes, I do respecfully disagree with your opinion of Shania Twain. Howver, I would never -- even for a minute -- put her on musical par with Brian. That would be sacralegious for me.
But, I understand whre you are coming from on this issue. Plus, you have a lot of spunk in your delivery.

By Jeanne on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 04:24 pm:

Jeff, you are right. At some level an artist is in control of his art. I've read Brian quoted as saying that he purposefully wants to make his very complex music sound simple. Which is why people are so surprised when they try to reproduce it and they have to work at it.

But at another level there is inspiration. There's been some talk on the board about Brian's muse. "Straight through him from the cosmos" makes sense to me. And what's that expression? The sum is bigger than the parts. Brian is truly the Master.

Interesting points about subversion. Here's some thoughts: I think music really did used to be subversive, but it's been co-opted now and only seems to want to push the boundaries of acceptable public expressions of sexuality. These days you can buy your rebellion at the Mall. You reach a point where everything that can be said has been said, and the only thing that is original and viable is Beauty. ( I just looked up viable in my dictionary, and the first thing it says is "capable of living…under favorable conditions." It's interesting to think of Brian's music that way--It's living, alive, as long as we LISTEN) "Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty" Cant remember who said, it but it applies to Brian's music. And from that we can go to "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." Well I could go on forever about the Psycho-delicate Master.

Hey, I always felt a little bad about my comment about your girlfriend in my first reply on this thread. Sorry, no disrespect intended, I was in the throes of a great big gushy response.

And Merry Christmas to you, too, and all of us!

By Jeanne on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 04:35 pm:

New Executive, no, that wasn't it. Here's your last clue: It had to do with a magazine article (GQ? Esquire? some guy mag)and the parallels between Pet Sounds and...something else. But please don't bring it up again here!

By new executive on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 06:38 pm:

Oh yes, that was pretty cool. And what, you didn't agree?
I always thought that making love with Pet Sounds playing in the background heighened the experience.
If you haven't already, you should try it. You sound like someone who'd appreciate the trip.

By Jeanne on Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 07:35 pm:

Blushing again...didn't you read my reply to that post? We've got to stop this flirtation before people start reminding us that this is the Brian Wilson board...Merry Christmas!

By the way, Don't Worry Baby would need to be playing also.

By John W. Proctor on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 01:32 am:

Quoting Christ, eh?
You're holding out on me.
-Linear Western Patriarchal Dinosaur John

By new executive on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 05:06 am:

Well, you've convinced me, and I agree with your musical addition. I'll bring the records, or I guess the lingo now is, the cds. Could you handle the rest?
Have a Happy Christmas, too!

By Jeanne on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 06:39 am:

John, I am not holding out, I have no problem quoting Jesus, he was a very great man even if I am not a Christian. Patriarchy is a big problem in the world. I'll bet you anything Brian believes in equality between the sexes. And Brian loves nature, so he wouldn't be into dominating(read destroying) it. But this discussion belongs on your thread. I'll e-mail you as soon as I have time to think about the download you sent. (Busy season of shopping.)


By Brian's Sandbox on Monday, December 20, 1999 - 08:38 pm:

Oh no! John jumped over to this board!! Run for the hills...

By Jeff on Tuesday, December 21, 1999 - 10:40 am:


"Beauty is truth, truth beauty--that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know." Wonderful -- that's John Keats from "Ode on a Grecian Urn." Keats is another artist who had a direct pipeline to the eternal. What an excellent quote to bring up in a discussion of Brian Wilson's music.

That's also an apt observation about buying rebellion at the mall. It's almost as if rebellion is no longer possible for kids, like the powers that be have figured all the angles and whichever way they try to make a statement has already been figured and marketed. A buddy of mine who is a poet uses the phrase "generic originality" to descirbe the victims of this phenomena.

Anyway, I'm sitting here listening to Johnny Cash's tremendous "American Recordings" album from 8 or 10 years ago with "Friends" coming up next on the cd player. The real thing to the real thing. What a fine early afternoon in the South!

No offense taken from the early post! If she appreciated the Beach Boys, my girl would probably be too perfect and vanish in a bright, shimmering glow. Everything in nature must have a flaw.

Okay, I've waxed on long enough. "Friends" has just begun and I'm drifting away. . .

By Brother Lee Love on Tuesday, December 21, 1999 - 07:47 pm:

Keats, Jesus, Brian, our Jeanne and the New Executive strapping in on together somewhere out there in cyberspace, resident pastor Brother John jumping in for good measure... interesting thread!

By Aum Bop Diddit on Tuesday, December 21, 1999 - 08:50 pm:

Oh! Excuse me...I didn't mean to interrupt..I... must have the wrong room! Sorry! I'll be going now!

By Jeanne on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 06:39 am:

Aum Bop, even you!!??:)I wonder who Brother Lee Love is; the guys on this board switch to aliases a LOT. Hey, we quit of our own accord, give us some credit!

By Jeanne on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 07:21 am:

Jeff, Thanks for identifying the quote for me. When I was a kid, (I'm 46)all I had to do was stop straightening my very curly hair, put on my bluejeans, and dis the government to be rebellious. Much easier to be part of the "Love" generation (on the tail end) than whatever today. But why don't they rebel by listening to Brian's music? That would set them apart for sure! A Brian Wilson renaissance...

I have to laugh at the see-saw conversaton I've been having recently-from the sublime to the-???? But hope this great thread doesn't get littered with hecklers.

By Jeff on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 11:01 am:

Hey Jeanne:

Yep, a Brian Wilson renaissance would be magnificent. I'll betcha it could happen if, somehow, enough kids got a whiff of the Pet Sounds / Smile-era stuff.

I agree that it's tough on the young 'uns now; it just seems like they're cornered. But youth always finds a way.

Me, I'm 40, and though it would be cool to be 18 again, I would not trade my salad days for these.

A question for you, if you don't mind: I've seen posts where you suggest that you're a new fan, but if you described how you got turned onto this music, I missed it. You certainly know and understand Brian's music, seemingly in your bones. What, specifically, made you start listening? For me it was being 14 or 15 and hanging out at a buddy's house who was a big fan. The Beach Boys were always on the turntable and for a long time it was just background music, and then, one day -- WHAM! I finally heard the music and I haven't stopped listening since.

Perhaps the story of how you started listening could shed light on the question that got this thread going in the first place.

(If you've already answered this, feel free to direct me to the proper thread. Or, if you don't want to answer, feel free to tell me to buzz off.)

Happy holidays to all!

By Plymouth Rock on Wednesday, December 22, 1999 - 12:56 pm:

Just picking up on a couple things in this long-running and ever-interesting thread.

There may well be a BW renaissance; it some ways it's already happening. (Lots of good media coverage, good tour, decent album out last year, PS showing up on best of the century lists, etc.) I do think that BW will never be enormously popular with the 15-30 age group for the simple reason that pop music thrives as much on image as much as the music itself. The kids listening to, say, Britney Spears aren't just enjoying the music, they are connecting with what is packaged for them as Britney's image, lifestyle, etc. By listening to Britney they are saying, "That's my image, that's my lifestyle". It's a belief system. The same goes for alternative rock, country, rap, you name it artists: it's buying into an image. (Of course, the same is true of how Capitol marketed the BB's back in the early 60's).
I mean, someone who turned 18 this year was born in 1981. For them, the mid-60's are a long time ago. They also identify the music from that era with their parents, making it less likely that they are going to be receptive to that music. I was born in 1959; I now love a lot of the music from the 40's and 50's but there was no way I was going to listen to that when I was in high school.
That's why I think it's somewhat sad the BW seems to be holding on to hope that he will have a big hit at the age of 58 (next June). How many 58 year olds were denting the charts in 1960, 1970, or 1980? I would bet, not many. Pop music is only partly about the music, it's in large sense about image and marketing. I'm not saying that's evil, I'm just saying that's the way it is.
There will always be younger people getting into BW. There is just never going to be a critical mass of them, enough to turn it into a big deal.


By Jeanne on Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 04:28 am:

I would much rather respond to the posts above, but I have to go out of town, computer will not be available, will have to talk to the relatives instead, I guess. Sigh. Merry Merry Merry Christmas!

By Jeff on Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 08:39 am:

You're right, Plymouth Rock. As a fellow 1959 baby, my experience is similar to yours. I can remember back in the 70s, being in the car with my folks who were listening to jazz on NPR. I felt like I was trapped in hell. Now I love jazz.

More to the point, I agree that a "hit" is probably not in Brian's future at this point. (Though I am not so sure that "South American" wouldn't have done well on the charts if it had been pushed as a single. Also, I don't have nearly the problem imagining the Stones or Bowie, for example, producing a popular song or album.)

What frustrates me is that the people around Brian and the record company executives don't seem to understand just how culturally valuable -- and at least marginally commercial -- a full-blown Brian Wilson project could be.

That said, I do love Imagination and the rest of his solo projects. But it would be nice if Brian found himself in the proper psychic space to experiment again on a grand scale & had a distribution contract which provided him an outlet for his work.

Okay, I'm beginning to ramble.

Happy holidays!

By Jeanne on Sunday, December 26, 1999 - 04:24 pm:

Hi Jeff,

I have at times talked about how I became a fan, but I have no problem repeating myself! Or elaborating.

But I don't know how much insight it will provide into why women don't like the BBs as much as men.

I had heard quotes by Paul McCartney and Leonard Bernstein about the influence of Brian's music, and I was surprised. Like everybody else who knows no better, I thought the BBs were basically surf music with occasional gems like GV and GOK. My interest was piqued because my ignorance about music bothers me.

One day last summer I ran into a copy of Wouldn't It Be Nice, misplaced on the shelf for new books. So I read it and became intrigued with Brian. (I realize now that the book is not what it seems.)

Next I bought Pet Sounds, and here my story is like any other new fan's. And brings up the questions addressed in different ways on different threads: Why is the music so special? Why do only a few people get it? Why should WIBN and GOK and Don't Talk have brought me to my knees(figuratively, I was always driving when I was listening)? Why did I have to pull over the first time I heard Don't worry Baby?

That's the mystery-why the music is so beautiful-even the "surf" tunes have Brian's unique take on things that lifts them out of the realm of the ordinary. And why do so few people hear that beauty and why fewer women than men? (We're assuming from the anecdotal evidence than it is true that more men than women like the BBs.)
Here's some of my thinking: Some of the guys on this thread have said it was a guy thing, and originally I rushed to say that It must be the masculine in me that loved the music. Like I was a guy relating to guy stuff. On another thread a man said that he thought Brian's muse was feminine, and that's why it is so seductive. A friend wrote to me that on the Imagination video Brian states that sometimes he is in touch with the feminine when he writes. Maybe that's it. Maybe some of Brian's music appeals to the feminine in men and to the masculine in women. (as well as to the obvious guy appeal of a lot of it)And since I'm assuming that there are more men with the "feminine" in them than women with the "masculine' in them(in the same way that there are more gays than lesbians) then more men than women would be attracted. Or maybe I am also relating to the "feminine" in his music, if it’s a true type of femininity, as opposed to the stereotypical, commercial, (to me)femininity I see in Brittany Spears and her ilk Or maybe everything I just said is a crock! If men and women were equally attracted to the BBs, these considerations wouldn’t arise. But there being a greater number of male fans than female fans has got to have something to do with the fundamental differences between male and female.

UNLESS, the same is true of all male groups. Are there the same number of male and female fans of the Stones? REM? No one would be bothered by the idea that there are more male fans of the Stones than female; it would be expected. I don't know, my brother-in-law is of the opinion that women simply do not listen to music as much or need music as much as men. The reason for the difference between the number of male and female BB fans may just be that simple. Be nice to see some data on that. (does your girlfriend listen to music as much as you do?)

As for me, I remember a movie I saw where this couple are keeping a little stone sculpture in their hotel room. It's about two inches high. It's worth about $60,000. The hotel maid, who is deaf, steals it. But she doesn't try to sell it, she puts it on a shelf in her room where she can see it. When she is caught, the police ask her why she did it(if not for the money). And this deaf girl writes on a piece of paper: "It spoke to me and I heard it."

And that's what happened to me.

By Jeanne on Sunday, December 26, 1999 - 04:37 pm:

Plymouth Rock, you make a lot of sense. that point about image is one that has been basically left out of the discussion on other threads about how to get Brian a hit. Usually we focused on whom he should collaborate with. Apparently, for the under 30 set, what he needs is a marketing genius. But the over 30 set should be easier to reach and I wish a "full blown Brian Wilson Project" as Jeff said, could happen. I wonder how he could be marketed to THAT age group.

By Wild Honey on Monday, December 27, 1999 - 09:41 pm:

I may not be in the "over 30" age group.....but i'm for Brian ALL THE WAY!!!!!

love that man....love his music.....

i would love to see a resurgence....his music is VERY worthy of a second "wave" of popularity....but it might be hard...considering that us "youths" are pounded with mindless images with NO substance....to expose them to something as mindblowing as Brian's music.....would...well...they just wouldn't get it.....i'm all for marketing....as long as they keep his integrity intact! *S*

By Good God on Monday, December 27, 1999 - 09:44 pm:

*LOL* John is going to download Jesus onto Jeanne until she gives up.

Resistance is futile. heathen.

Give it a rest.

By carolineno on Tuesday, December 28, 1999 - 01:30 am:

Gee---I've had problems finding GUYS who like the BBs. I converted (yeh! right!) 2 guys: they each have one token BB CD that they never listen to. Now, one of them is so fed up with my BB love, that he leaves the room if I put on a BBs CD, or talk about Bri. Guess it didn't work. If it weren't for the guys in the Cabin, God lovem', I wouldn't know any fellas that are fans. Until I joined the Cabin, I thought that only chicks dug the Boys. A lot of men, that I know, consider their music just a bunch of fluff. But, we all know just how complex (melodically) and soulful (lyrically) their music is. Preaching to the choir, here! *SMiLES* I'm Bri-Bri ALL the way!!
Surf's Up!

By Iain B on Tuesday, December 28, 1999 - 06:53 pm:

Jeanne, we all have a masculine and a feminine side to us it takes a special person to allow the opposite side of our sexuality to show without feeling threatened, And yes Brian is another way that I can get in touch with my feminine side if infact the nuturing, gentle passionate, caring, tender side of me is female. The thing is as a guy is allowing this side out without it impeeding on your male side. This is somewhat self serving but any Lady that is dating or married to a guy that is into and gets Brians music is a fortunate person.He is more likely to be a gentle passionate romantic. However even Brian had this battle within his music, the feminine side of the B side of Beach Boys Today and Pet Sounds taking over from the masculine side of the earlier songs about Surfing, Cars and girls. This is also where I see the disparity between Brian and love, mikey has never developed emotionally beyond the Male macho bullshit, where as Brian understood that to be male is also to allow the otherside to come out as well.
Urglie Urglie,

Iain B

By Jeanne on Tuesday, December 28, 1999 - 07:50 pm:

Iain, I'm begging you, will you let your compassionate feminine side out and tell me what the hell(this is the masculine me speaking) urglie urglie means???? And by the way, I'm totaly sold on you.

By Amy Proctor on Tuesday, December 28, 1999 - 08:06 pm:

Have you guys still not figured out why women don't like the Beach Boys?

By NorCalSurfer on Wednesday, December 29, 1999 - 03:52 am:


By Jeanne on Wednesday, December 29, 1999 - 07:18 am:

Amy, North California Surfer, it wouldn't matter if we did, we just like to talk about it! And NorCalSurfer, I just scrolled up the entire thread and didn't notice any opinion by you. So what's your take on it?

By Another Carl Fan on Wednesday, December 29, 1999 - 09:32 am:

Since when do we women not like the Beach Boys??? I've been madly in love with them since 1963!!

By NorCalSurfer on Wednesday, December 29, 1999 - 08:12 pm:

Actually, I posted under the username "Gremmie" back on September 29th. This topic, like so many discussed here, has no definitive answer.

p.s. i really enjoy your posts.

By Jeanne on Thursday, December 30, 1999 - 06:30 pm:

Thank you. ditto.

By John W. Proctor on Monday, January 3, 2000 - 03:16 am:

Some women obviously hear things in the Beach Boys that you don't. That is not a good/evil issue, but one of art/taste.
There is a real innocence there that is in more than just the lyrics of "In MY Room" or "When I Grow Up to Be a Man." Its in the acappella harmonies, the soaring melodies, the harmless riffing and rhythms, the musical intricacies of Brian's arrangements, the freshness and color of the basic structure of the songs. Its music that walks sofly inside your soul, but can also stir up great exuberance and make you glad you are alive. It arouses no guilt and refuses to intimidate.
The best thing I can say about it Amy is that I always think of your love when I hear "Don't Worry, Baby" and the way you have taken care of me over the years. It never ceases to make me cry, and sometimes it makes me cry just walking down the street thinking of your innocent love and that sweet melody and those pure harmonies and how its really true about us. You make me come alive, and make me start to cry when you say, "Don't Worry, Baby. Everything will turn out alright..."

By Wild Honey on Monday, January 3, 2000 - 12:57 pm:

jeez, wish i had something great to post, but all i can say is great thread! I've always been fascinated with the dual nature of feminine/masculine qualities....and that's what draws me to Brian.....he's not afraid to be feminine....actually....that's pretty damn sexy if you ask me. *G* a big strong guy that cries more than ME! *L* gotta love him!!! i do. *S*


By Jeanne on Monday, January 3, 2000 - 07:01 pm:

Wild Honey, I couldn't agree with you more. And damn I love the way Brian's music makes men spill their guts.

By Wild Honey on Monday, January 3, 2000 - 08:44 pm:

oh it's very true, jeanne....I've talked to a few guys and we dealt with very sensitive subjects....concerning Brian's music....it's great. *S*

it's really nice to touch bases like that....i mean....some men i know idolize Brian....and even go as far as to say they "love" him....not love like an attraction....but a brotherly love maybe...or like admiration....it's very nice. *S*

By Jeanne on Tuesday, January 4, 2000 - 05:24 pm:

Whereas we women need have no compunction about saying we are attracted to him!

By Wild Honey on Tuesday, January 4, 2000 - 07:24 pm:

amen to THAT, jeanne!!

hehehehe....like a moth to a flame!

By Caldonia on Saturday, January 8, 2000 - 07:15 pm:

I'm a female that loves the BB's. I have ever since I was about 8 years old (36 years ago!) Beautiful, unbelievable harmonies. I don't know why they are so underappreciated. Maybe it's just that most people don't pay close attention to music; it's background noise.

By BWFAN on Friday, January 14, 2000 - 09:45 am:

Im in my 20's a Female,and I love and adore Brian and the Beach Boys .So no not most or all dislike the Beach Boys. I dont know one female that dislikes them.hmmm

By Johnm on Friday, January 14, 2000 - 06:07 pm:


Thanks for the interesting response on your 'take' - after reading your accounts "I want you to have my babies!" I think that there are precious few of us fans full stop, no matter what sex. I am sure that one day, Brian's music will be heralded as some of the best out of the 20th century and open to a wider audience of male and female listeners. Heck, I don't even really care - it 'spoke' to me when I was 11 years old (18 years ago) and is still the only music I am at complete peace with. It touches my soul.


By Jeanne on Saturday, January 15, 2000 - 11:03 am:

John, someday in BB heaven we can all play out our fantasies about each other and the BBs, in some big communal fertility/life rite. Music provided by BBs of course. Till then, thanks for the compliment. And blessed are we who have ears to hear.

By Mark W on Sunday, January 23, 2000 - 12:52 am:

I believe that audiences enjoy BB music but musicians don't enjoy playing it. I've tried and tried to get a BB cover band together in the Dallas area with little response to my ads. I gave up and set lesser goals,like asking the band I'm in now to play a 45-minute set of BB hits. As if you could do justice in 45 minutes. We have the ability to do this and I have all of the vocal parts scored out to save time and,still,no go. We play alot of pool parties at country clubs where I find that often little kids,usually about 10 and under,ask for Beach Boys,so we do our half-ass version of "Surfin' USA" and move on to the 99,999th time we play "Soul Man" or "Pretty Woman". Still,like the earlier post on this board from Australia shows,there are BB cover/tribute bands around the world (there's also one out of England with a website). It is really sad that out of the 15 or so musicians I know in the Austin and Dallas areas,I am the only real BB fan. My subversive plan is to bring in easy songs like a medley of "Good Timin'"/"Sail On Sailor" and "Wishing You Were Here",and then try to get them to learn "I Get Around" and "Good Vibrations". If we can do those last two,which are two of the most difficult,and pull them off,I'm hoping audience members would possibly start requesting others by the BB and maybe the band would get the message. Anyway,in the meantime,I'll just keep songs like "Kiss Me Baby","Please Let Me Wonder",and "Girls On The Beach" to myself on my Walkman while I'm lying out by the pool this summer. Urglie Urglie

By Joanna on Wednesday, February 2, 2000 - 01:22 pm:


A lot of misled rubbish has been spouted on this topic. I think that BW's music is loved and misunderstood be both men and women. I guess I kind of understand the stuff about men generally being more into music than women. But maybe that is because women who write their own songs and arrange and produce and not encouraged particularly by the commercial market and record companies. I would argue that there are few positive and true female geniuses in music leaving female musicians with no role models and a much harder task to get their efforts noticed.

I am female and love the beach boys. I cannot find one person who has even heard anything past pet sounds and even fewer who credit the music as more than amusing bubble gum pop. Still I kind of like having them all to myself, its a good feeling like I am holding the key to a real magical secret.

However, For a 19 year old girl who loves the beach boys, life can get quite lonely.

Women when given the fair chance to represent themselves in the music industry as something other than a sex symbol, maybe female interest in music will become deeper and subsequently we will find more female beach boys fans.


By Buckalew on Saturday, February 5, 2000 - 07:09 pm:

I saw this topic and HAD to read it. I am 35 years old and have loved the BB since I was about 8. They were my first concert and the memories that they bring back to me are unforgettable. I am just shocked to hear that women don't like the BB as much as men. Actually, I haven't met many people in my life that love the BB. I really know nothing about chords and harmonies, so I am strictly going by words and the feel good feeling I get from listening to them. They, as someone else said, make me happy, cheer me up from a bad mood and give me pep when I am feeling sluggish. As far as the comments about women not liking the bikinis and stuff like that... that was always the way I got my boyfriend(now husband) to go to those concerts where Mike Love always had the dancing girls w/him. I am so sad that my five year old didn't get to see them in concert together. But, we play BB music around the house and I tell her never to trust someone who doesn't like the BB!! Just wanted to add myself to the list of women that love them and miss Dennis and Carl very much.But I thank God that we had the BB cause I can't imagine growing up w/o them--esp. those teen years that were so hard anyway...the BB spoke what my heart was feeling whether I was in love or going through a heartbreak.

By NorCalSurfer on Saturday, February 5, 2000 - 09:43 pm:

BRAVO & warm regards to the authors of the 2 (two) posts directly above this one. Very cool!

By Beach on Monday, February 28, 2000 - 10:51 pm:

very interesting I lost my viginity while the BB's were playing in the background. Hmmm good vibrations ;o)

By Rose Amrhein on Tuesday, February 29, 2000 - 07:11 pm:

HEY!! What woman wouldnt love the beach boys?
At least that's what i would think. I mean they were attractive, and sweet, and clean-looking, adorable!
Makes me wish i was born back then:)
Beautiful music too, great harmonizing, and lyrics, really romantic, etc.
Like someone else said, some of it gives me chills, like "God Only Knows" , it's a weird feeling you get, anyoneone else want to comment on this? The feeling i get from "God ONly Knows" to name just one of the songs, is kind of sad, but deep and emotional, really awesome, it makes tears come to my eyes. Brian did a great job with this one. I'll always love it.

By Chipper on Wednesday, March 1, 2000 - 04:21 am:


I think someone else commented on this -- either above or in a different thread -- but isn't it amazing how a song which starts with the line "I may not always love you..." is so deeply romantic and moving. It's one of my alltime favorites by ANYONE, and I always include it (along with Elton John's "Your Song")in the Anniversary tape I make for my wife every year!

By Rosemary on Wednesday, March 1, 2000 - 07:53 pm:


By hilary d. lawrence on Sunday, March 12, 2000 - 05:59 pm:

Hey, Jeff---

I love the Beach Boys and I happen to be a girl!
What kind of comment was that? I also happen to know several girls who think the Beach Boys are cool, too.

The first Beach Boys song I ever remember hearing
was "Good Vibrations" when I was about six years old.

I'm not a major fan, though. I don't really have
a favorite band-- I like most oldies bands.


By Michelle on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 09:50 am:

I am a female- only 15, but I have to agree with everybody in favor of the Beach Boys. How can you not love their music? Brian Wilson IS a genius. My favorite radio stations are now ones that play oldies. Somehow, the Beach Boys music is magical to me. I love it! A few weeks ago ABC did a special- The Beach Boys: An American Family. I taped it and still watch it like there is no tomorrow. To all you men with wives/girlfriends, I hope you find someone who can share your love of the Beach Boys.

By Bungalow Bill on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 01:03 pm:

The Beach Boys and The Beatles wrote the bible on good songwriting . If most women choose not to study it , we end up with divas like Mariah , Whitney , Britney , Madonna , Fiona , Crow , Twain , Christine A. , Courtney Love , and on and on who either can't write or can't write worth a d*mn !

By NOBLE SURFER on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 01:33 pm:

Man, my mother,girlfriend, my 2 sisters, and my 4 of my female cousins love the Beach Boys. They love all their music.


P.S. Michelle, it is so nice to see other young people interested in the Beach Boys. There isn't many here in my area that like them. Most of the young people I know, call them "oldie has beens". Oh well. :)

By Neighbor John on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 05:31 pm:

Bungalow Bill, I think you need to listen to some more Sheryl Crow. She does not belong on that list of human blowtorches. Crow has read the Beatles' songwriting book.

By anne on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 06:38 pm:

This thread makes me realize how youth is wasted on the young. ;) What I mean is, as a girl listening to BB music, I barely noticed them, thinking they were a bunch of nerds. Today, listening to Don't Worry Baby or Wouldn't it Be Nice is about as sublime of a listening experience as I can have. Brian's voice is so soulful, sensitive, and sensual. As many of you have already stated, his music seems directly plucked from heaven.

By GRiN on Saturday, March 18, 2000 - 09:02 pm:

Bungalow Bill:

Have you heard anything from Fiona Apple's new album, When the Pawn...? Some pretty impressive stuff, and it shows that she sure as heck knows her Beatles, if not her Beach Boys. I'd say she also doesn't belong on your list of shame.

By kbanks on Sunday, March 19, 2000 - 06:29 pm:

Michelle (the girl who said she's 15),
Please. I am so glad that I read your message. You say that you made a tape of both nights, and you still watch them like it's no tomorrow. I would love to get a copy of both of your tapes. I am in desperate need of both nights. This is not a weirdo message from someone who is really a nut trying to be evil or negative. Show your parents this message. And let them know that all I want is a copy of this tape. Thanks in advance. God bless you. sbanks2701@aol.com

By Bungalow Bill on Monday, March 20, 2000 - 04:36 pm:

True , Crow & Apple aren't as bad as the others but I doubt people will be 'worshipping' Criminal or All I Wanna Do in 10 years time (yes, I've heard their new stuff!). They didn't study their Beat-Boys Bible * well enough . It says , and I quote , " Thou shalt have lots of gorgeous intricate harmonies.....Thou Shalt be unpredictable , exploring all musical styles ....Thou shall not make "aren't I sexy videos' to sell product ........Thou shall create a whole new earth-shattering sound in which a every song is a timeless classic ....etc. I don't expect an artist to master all these high ideals ..but they should try. * The Book according to John-Paul Wilson

By GRiN on Tuesday, March 21, 2000 - 11:07 am:

Good points, but
1) A lot of artists have made very good music without using harmonies extensively. That's more of a stylistic choice than a sign of good art.

2) There aren't a whole lot of new sounds left with which to shatter the earth. It was much easier to do totally new things in rock 'n' roll when the form was only ten years old. It is now approaching fifty.

I agree that Crow and Apple aren't amongst the greatest things happening in music today, but they also aren't the shameless, commercial, made-for-MTV slop that the pre-packaged pop acts we have been assaulted with are. To me, they occupy a Dave Matthews-ish middle ground.

By Bungalow Bill on Tuesday, March 21, 2000 - 12:49 pm:

GRiN , I'm strictly speaking of Great music rather than good . Harmony , whether vocal or instrumental is essential in great music . Remember the elements ? Vocal harmonies almost always enhance , rarely harm , almost any style of music you care to name . R'n'R was built on oohs and ahhs and dittits , etc. and it's sorely lacking that communal sound these days (so much so that when a song appears these days with them , it's a hit) . All the best 'song' bands (rather than 'groove') have them and use them . True , most new ground has been broken and muddied , but one should still try . Oh , it's out there being done , but doesn't get heard or sold . And that doesn't stop those who do it for love from soldering on . Shall I put my $$ where my mouth is? Try Louis Philippe (Azure or Delta Kiss CDs) ! Closest thing I've heard to a Brian adventurer. Fiona , Crow AND Matthews cling to their sound for dear career-life ... or perhaps because that's all they can do , good , not great . On that we agree . ( Crow's Everday is a Winding Road (?) is a 2-bit melody which rips off Long & Winding Road , c'mon try a little harder .

By Cassie on Friday, March 24, 2000 - 09:56 am:

I just recently discovered this page, and I just want to say that I am a 18 year old female who has been a Beach Boys/Brian Wilson fan for 11 years. I used to listen to mainly the "mainstream" Beach Boys material from the early 1960s, but I have recently heard "Cabin Essence" and "Surf's Up", and "Surf's Up" has become my favorite Beach Boys song of all time, the vocals in that song are amazing, IMHO. I have been searching for a CD of "Pet Sounds", as I have never heard the entire CD, and would love to sit down an listen to it. Thanks for reading my little spiel (if you're still reading)!


By Merrell on Friday, March 24, 2000 - 10:00 am:

Estrogen POWER! Actually, as a woman, I can totally relate to what Jeanne (I think it was Jeanne) said about preferring male company to female company. I am totally heterosexual, however, most women remind me of snippy little dogs and hissing cats. They have no sense of humor and get way to uptight about all the wrong things. Most women also do not appreciate music... I have no idea why. All my girlfriends can't understand my deep obsession with music and they certainly can't understand this Beach Boy thing.

To give you an example... My cousin is part of a Regional Touring Band, they are young, way too into the grunge thing, and to me don't seem like they know what they're doing, at least not yet. Maybe someday they will at least learn to write music down on paper. Anyway, when I said this to my mother she said, "Well, they're no worse than the Beach Boys, all their stuff sounds the same too." If my mouth could've opened any further, you could've easily crammed an entire watermelon in it. SACRILEGE! I NO LONGER HAVE A MOTHER!

This totally illustrates my point. Most women just don't get it. Just assume any woman that does recognize the talent of Brian, and the gifts he gave us all, is a very cool girl.

If you're interested, I wrote a "book" on the first thread, I think it was what makes Brian so special. I also got my feet wet on some other threads challenging some holier than thou fans. Keyword Search, author, Merrell. You might find them interesting.

By Maria on Saturday, March 25, 2000 - 06:43 am:

To Cassie, I am a fifteen year old girl who also loves the beach boys and brian wilson. I got "hooked" about a year ago. Pet Sounds I beliece is available at Amazon.com, they have so much other Beach Boys stuff it's unbelievable. Iwas very happy to see that someone under thirty likes the beach boys.

As for all the other men out there, i can understand how you could say women don't "appreciate" the beach boys. A lot of my friends feel the same way. But believe me, I do. And i do think it is genetic because my dad is also a huge Beach boy fan. I don't think the rest of my family "gets it".
Thanks for listeng (reading)
P.S. any other young bboy fans out there??

By Michelle on Saturday, March 25, 2000 - 10:44 am:

Yeah, I'm a huge BB fan, too. I'm 15 and have loved the Beach Boys for... a while. I don't know many other kids who like "the oldies" music, but I think it's great.

I'll talk to my parents about making you a copy. The only thing is, the first 15-20 minutes are not taped.

By Noble Surfer on Saturday, March 25, 2000 - 11:04 pm:

Hi Maria. I'm a young fan. I have been a die-hard fan ever since the ripe young age of 7. I am now 20.


By Wendy on Sunday, March 26, 2000 - 12:39 pm:

I'm a woman who's always loved the music of the Beach Boys! I especially love those gorgeous harmonies of theirs. No one before or since could sing like that. As for these girls and women that don't or can't appreciate the God given talent of Brian Wilson's music, I love their songs too, all I can say is that's too bad. You should really give them a try. However some young women only like groups like the Backstreet Boys or male singers that are good-looking and only sing sappy love songs that they can fantasize over.

Time will tell. People still listen to and enjoy the Beach Boys even though they've been around for thirty years. Let's see where the Backstreet Boys are thirty years from now. As far as I'm concerned, the Beach Boys are right up there with the Beatles and Elvis!

By vladimir on Sunday, March 26, 2000 - 03:38 pm:

It seems the favorite songs(generally) of my female friends either had a deepness-of-lyric
or a rhythmic thing.
Let's face it, the Beach Boys were weak in
both departments.
Convincing females of the BB's greatness was
by asking them to concentrate on the beauty
of the sound and melody. It is the best.
It's abstract. Some understand, some don't.

Please don't hurt me.
P.S.White Cap deserves the jeweled sceptor!

By Moonman40 on Sunday, March 26, 2000 - 11:59 pm:

My daughters (ages 15 and 16) were going home after spending their spring break with my wife and I. I have tried my best to keep with up with their tastes, and some of the music I have actualoly enjoyed, but have also have shared my musical tastes with them as well. Anyway, we put on the BB Greatest Hits Vol. 1. Imagine my delight when they were able not only to sing with their old man, but was able to harmonize on many of the songs (even "I Get Around". At least doing my part on making more female BB fans.

Sail On

By Maria on Monday, March 27, 2000 - 05:17 pm:

It's so exciting to here from people my age who like the Beach Boys. I was starting to get lonely. Tell me, all those young fans out there, what is you fav Beach Boy song. Mine is God Only Knows, and then maybe Surfer Girl-i've never heard better lyrics, and Don't worry baby, and I get Around.

By NOBLE SURFER on Monday, March 27, 2000 - 08:27 pm:

Mine are GOK, GV, Help Me Rhonda(gotta love that rythm), and Heroes and Villians

By Maria on Tuesday, March 28, 2000 - 06:06 pm:

Noble Surfer: who is your fav beach boy

By jill on Tuesday, March 28, 2000 - 11:53 pm:

Has it occurred to anyone else that Brian may be gay? Just wondering.

By jonharrison on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 10:05 am:

brian's not gay but effeminacy is no bad thing; infact many great songs are written by men with a highly pronounced female side like schubert, cole porter and david bowie to name but three; i'd take the morrissey view that there is no such thing as straight, queer or bisexual; we are all merely sexual full stop

By Bungalow Bill on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 12:36 pm:

Yes , Jill , Brian's a lesbian in a guy's body, like me !

By jill on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 01:57 pm:

jill, there's two of us here! Hall shall we distinguish which one we are?
jill (who definitely does not think brian is gay!)

By blackrock on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 05:36 pm:

to the jill that suggested Brian's gay...

number one, i don't think so, number two what difference does it make? who cares? (except maybe his wife)

I really think it's not good to make those sort of speculations. Brian is who he is...a musical genious. as far as i'm concerned nothing else matters, or effects me anyway

By Noble Surfer on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 07:17 pm:

Maria, it's hard to answer that question, but I have to say the great one, Brian Wilson. Just look at him and listen to him.
BTW, I can sing Brian's falsetto parts very well.


By Maria on Thursday, April 6, 2000 - 04:55 pm:

No, I'm sure Brian is not gay. those songs about girls breaking his heart are sincere.

By Noble Surfer on Friday, April 7, 2000 - 08:23 pm:

See, one of my problems is that I can't find a girl my age to go out with that loves the Beach Boys. It would be nice if I could. Then we could talk all night long. Oh well*waiting for the right girl*


By Maria on Friday, April 14, 2000 - 07:01 pm:

dear noble surfer, maybe if you wrote some heart wrenching songs for your girlfriends they would like the beach boys...it would work on me probably

By NOBLE SURFER on Saturday, April 15, 2000 - 08:39 am:

I have done that for one girl, but she didn't seem to interested. It would work on you, KEWL. I have written several songs that are structered like a BB song.
Maria, wish you lived in Dallas Texas.;)


By Maria on Sunday, April 16, 2000 - 03:46 pm:

well, keep trying noble surfer...
i'm sure there's at least one girl in texas who likes the beach boys.

i got a really cool cd at a used cd store... endless harmony. it's got the most amazing god only knows vocal...brian sings the part of the french horn. after the initial shock, i had to play it over. wow.

to everyone: is bruce john. on california girls? the part that goes, I wish they all could be... after brian sings it. the echo, sort of.

By Michelle on Monday, April 17, 2000 - 11:11 am:

Hello. I'm 15 and I love the Beach Boys. My favorite BB is probably Carl. My favorite songs by the BB'S? Well, I've got a lot. Kokomo is way up there, along w/ I Get Around, God Only Knows, In My Room, and Wouldn't It Be Nice. I like all of there songs though.

Good luck finding your perfect girl, ok? I really hope that you find some girl that is sensible enough to share your love for the Beach Boys. I mean, there's gotta be a girl around your age that also digs the Beach Boys sound. (Let her listen to Kokomo... that has got to be one of the prettiest songs and with those instruments... wow. It's heaven. But that's just my opinion.)

By Michelle on Monday, April 17, 2000 - 11:16 am:

This really is not related to the topic, but does anyone know which are the middle and youngest Wilson brothers? I've heard to many different stories. I know Brian is the oldest, but is Carl or Denny the middle? Carl seems like the middle child to me, but I really don't know much. This question has been bugging me for the longest time now, so I would really appreciate any feedback. THANX!!!

By Piper on Monday, April 17, 2000 - 01:25 pm:

Dennis is the middle and Carl is the baby.

By bathrobe on Wednesday, April 19, 2000 - 10:42 pm:

i feel that it really depends on the person. my old lady move to this country from japan 3 years ago with practically no knowledge of usa/uk music with the exception of elvis/beatles/michael jackson. without my conversion or any motivation to listen to my music to make me happy, she has been able to pick something out of my 5000lp/900cd
collection and get into it. she probably has the type of ears that detect these buried treasures. it is cool to hear humming (bb-games twocan play, catholic girls-zappa, whats the new mary jane- beatles) w/out me even introducing these to her. she became even more enamored after the tv-movie. in my case it is a aural appreciation thing instead of a gender thing

By Deck on Friday, April 28, 2000 - 05:36 am:

I can't believe some of ye thought he was gay. Even if he was does that take from his musical prowess?.

By Victor C. on Saturday, April 29, 2000 - 11:22 am:

My favorite Beach Boys' song is "Please Let Me Wonder"...it's perfect in every respect (and one of the few I can play in the guitar and sing in a pretty decent way). I wonder how many people like me (20 years-old) enjoy the BB...sometimes I feel embarassed to reveal my admiration, because people always look at me as if I was a geek or something...

By NOBLE SURFER on Saturday, April 29, 2000 - 12:59 pm:

Me, I am also 20. I have been a fan since the age of 7.


By La Parka on Saturday, April 29, 2000 - 04:54 pm:

Forget the girls who don't like The Beach Boys. These days, if it's not some crap like NSYNC or Backstreet Boys, or some awful rap, most chicks really don't dig it. But to those girls who do like good music like this, thank God you still exist.

By Victor C. on Saturday, April 29, 2000 - 06:28 pm:

Well, talking from my own experience, I have to say that it's a fact: women don't like the Beach Boys (not all of them, as you can see by the previous posts). My mom, for example, always laughs when "Surfer Girl" is playing, saying that all they can do is sing oooooo's. You know, my mom has a good musical taste, but strangely enough, she does not dig the boys...I'd like to hear a professional opinion about the issue "women Vs. Beach Boys".

By cycler48 on Saturday, April 29, 2000 - 07:39 pm:

In my own experience, I can say that my first wife hated the Beach Boys and would even laugh at me for playing their music. However, my second wife thinks (as I do) that they're the greatest musical group ever. Also, all the concerts I have attended there certainly were quite a few females in attendance who seemed to be loving the music.

By ava on Sunday, April 30, 2000 - 02:16 pm:

I don't know. I think women do like the music of the Beach Boys . . .
it just may take some maturation before you can
appreciate the beauty in the subtle complexity.
In a way, Brian was a SNAG (sensitive new age guy)
before it became fashionable. Indeed, ahead of
his time! Today when I listen to either Imagination
or the older recordings, a meditative
peace comes over me.

By Elena on Tuesday, May 2, 2000 - 05:28 pm:

Wow! I was beginning to think I was the only teenage girl (I'm 16) with good musical taste ;) Personally, I don't see how anyone can listen to a song like GOK and not be mesmerized. But I guess that's the problem, people aren't really listening to it. Or they don't pay much attention when they do.

I think part of the reason I am so BB obsessed is that I can actually play music (flute and guitar), as opposed to my Ricky Martin-loving friends. For me, half the fun is trying to play it! And playing the fluff that's geared toward teenage girls would definitely not appeal to me. How many of you other females feel this way?

By Maria on Friday, May 5, 2000 - 08:42 pm:

Dear Elena, Yeah, "fluff" isn't very appealing. and the thing with the Beach Boys is, in the 60s, they had sort of fluffy-Mike-Love lyrics, and intrucate wonderful backgrounds. I really enjoy playing along to beach boys stuff, but some times it's aggravating because they music is like a million times better than my measly attempt. but i am trying to get a band to gether with my sisters this summer, and we'll see what we can do.

By El Bucko on Thursday, May 11, 2000 - 03:06 pm:

I've just stumbled on this ongoing discussion on whether the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson is a male thang. I must say that in my experience a minority of people appreciate Brian and the Beach Boys and I don't think that I've ever met a woman who likes them - in fact they all hate them. Even my wife who sings vocal harmonies in a female barberhop ensemble can appreciate that Brian is very talented, but she doesn't like them. So unfortuntately we never get to make out to a Brian soundtrack, like many of the other men who have corresponded on this issue. I can get her to make out to Can (70s Krautrock band) though - although we can't play it too loud or it might wake the kids. Oh well.

By JOANNA on Friday, May 12, 2000 - 12:57 am:

Hey Bungalow Bill!

I think there are plenty of women who are writing and performing to as high a standard as you men. However, I think it is very difficult for women to be taken seriously in the music industry. I mean, Look at the forementioned Crow and Apple. They're bloody gorgeous, slim, traditionally attractive model types. It is my contention that men do not have to be particularly pretty to gain respect and success in the music industry, whereas women have to show their boobs just to get a record company to listen to their demos.

Feminist rant overwith, we will overcome!


By Maria on Saturday, May 13, 2000 - 01:38 pm:


By re- awakened fan on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 08:30 am:

I can't totally agree with that. Plenty of pretty boys with little talent are making it big. Granted it happens more with the teeny bopper crowd. If it weren't for his looks NOBODY would know who Ricky Martin is. Paul McCartney and Brian Wilson were pretty boys in their youth too!
Some of the most legendary women in music are nothing to look at, actually the best are no beauty queens. Mama Cass Elliot, Karen Carpenter, Barbara Streisand, Anne Wilson of Heart (big as a barn and I'd rather hear her sing than any woman who looks like a model), Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin.

By Bungalow Bill on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 11:59 am:

Joanna , you go girl/woman ! Problem is , I believe , more than 50% of the people who buy those "models' " CDs are female . And who buys Mariah , Christina A. , Bratney Spears , Alannis , TLC, Spice Girls and all the other " I write luv-ya-baby lyrics and get 1st credit before the guy who wrote the 2-bit music" skivas ? Don't be angry , and I'm not sexist. I believe women are the equal (no , not better ...THAT's sexist) of men in music. One need just look at the classical world . But in Pop and Rock , I've often wondered where the female Lennons, McCartneys and Wilsons are . Or as another no-talent , Courtney Love , herself says , "where are the great female guitarists ...a' la Hendrix , Clapton , etc.". Now , fully believing in my heart women can do it ( Sheila E. . Bonnie Raitt , Joni Mitchell , Laurie Anderson ) ,where are all the others? Is it upbringing , society , show biz ? It's a question I've often thought about , along with why more women seem to favor lyrics , while men , music . A stereotype , yes , but so isn't saying "most BBs' fans love harmonies " . Someone's bound to say , "how dare you pigeon-hole us !"

By yankeedog on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 03:15 pm:

The only difference between Courtney Love (related to Mike?) and the New York Rangers is that the Rangers take a shower after 3 periods!

By Bungalow Bill on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 06:39 pm:

Please ,Yankeedog ,let's not offend any of the ladies . Being here , they obviously are intelligent and have good taste . And that's no kiss-up only a fact I'm sure we'd all agree on . As this thread points out they're quite unique and we don't want to drive them away . But thanks for the support of my opinion of Ms. Love who might learn a thing or two if she came here ...she can't steal anything else from Cobain.

By Gina on Friday, May 19, 2000 - 08:40 pm:

Women can do it. But far fewer women WANT to do it. Far fewer have the personality for it. I mean to be good, not just to swish around on stage. Course now we have lots of guys swishing around on stage. And I'm not referring to gays, but to men(usually boys) who just stand there looking pretty.

By the way, you left out Chrissie Hynde.

One way of looking at it is the difference between a girl and a woman. There are far too many little girls up there on stage. Personally, they make me sick.

The thing with lyrics. I think women are more verbal and men are more musical. That's not sexism. Equality doesn't mean sameness. I have always felt that lyrics are important, whereas I find that many of my male friends don't even pay attention to the words. Can't even tell you what the guy is singing.

Joanna is right about women having to make it on sex appeal. Look at actresses. I'm sick of standing in line at the check-out counter in a grocery store, looking at all the scantilly clad actresses--women who have already "made" it and shouldn't still have to be taking off their clothes. You don't see half-dressed actors all over the covers of magazines. The difference is that women sell sex and men sell power. Power keeps its clothes on. Or rather, typically, female sex appeal is about availability and submission, whereas male sex appeal is about power. Maybe that's the difference in male/female singers. When you see Britanny Spears, do you think, "oh isn't she just adorable", or do you think, "man that woman exudes power, control and assertivness"?

In which category would Joni Mitchell, Aretha, Bonnie Raitt, and Chrissie Hynde belong?

By Bungalow Bill on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 08:25 am:

Gina , I did forget Chrissie and , I'm sure , many others . On the sex/power topic a case can be made that sex is the greatest power of all . But I agree , I'm dumbfounded by all the 'do me' photos actresses and female pop-singers are made to do . It loses its appeal by its pretensiousness and sheer number , except ,I guess , to boys in puberty . Rewinding a bit , ever hear of Fay Lovsky , from Holland , who critics call a "modern Brian" and I agree. She sings , writes and performs a wide assortment of instruments (including vibes and Theremin). Her songs cover the full spectrum of Pop styles . Just go to Basta.com and check out her song samples. Ain't no man gonna kick her musical behind ! Sadly , saleswise , she can't get arrested . Oh , the injustice of it all .

By Bungalow Bill on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 09:15 am:

On the lyrics vs. music issue: most songwriters start out purely as musicians spending countless hours honing their ability ,love and talent for music. Then comes the day they want to write their 1st songs , and think , " Oh no , now I've got to instantly become something of a poet !!" Some like Lennon are blessed with this inherent talent to match their developed musical chops. Most like Paul and Brian , are not . Both have written some great lyrics but still oftentimes it's "Baby let your hair grow long." I sometimes laugh at how JOURNALISTs (read:non-musicians) at mags like Rolling Stone cite an artist's lyrics like some kind of grand statement. Hey , these are guys who spent their childhoods in their rooms practicing scales ! What do THEY (Vedder or Stipe , for instance) know or have to say about life and love that average people out there living it don't already know . Yes , I was one of them In My Room and now spent a lot of time trying to create good lyrics (the music comes easy) but an instrumental can say just as much. One who prefers lyrics to music perhaps should give credit where due and idolize Van Dyke Parks more than Brian . Ah , that's human nature , we like a movie , we give all the credit and adulation to its star as if he/she did it all themselves .

By Gina on Saturday, May 20, 2000 - 07:18 pm:

Joan Armatrading, too.

Are you sure you gave me the right site to find Fay? And no, I had never heard of her.

About lyrics. I think Brian is a good lyricist. Some of his songs, such as Wind Chimes, 'Til I Die, Busy Doing Nothing, are very, very good. Excellent. And I'll tell you something else, I love the lyrics of Love You! So charming, so Brian. I like and listen to music without lyrics, but if they are there, I want them to be good. I get disappointed if the music is good but the lyrics are bad. You feel differently! I also like words without music, poetry, that is.

About your point about songwriters not knowing anything we all don't already know, what can be new is the way it is expressed. We can be made to realize something anew with good lyrics. There is still insight to be gained. Come on, Bungalow Bill, don't tell me that you have never been moved by words!

And if those musicians you speak of find they can't write well, they can get a lyricist!

I think women are more verbally oriented. Well, we do like to yak. I also read somewhere that musical prodigies are far more likely to be male. So maybe it's genetic.

By Bungalow Bill on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 12:24 pm:

Gina , for Fay Lovsky , just do a search on Basta records as the actual address in Netherlands is a mouthful. Don't worry , the site's in English and she's worth the looksee . Yes , I'm moved by good lyrics and there are songwriters who write good lyrics , or occasionally do . But it's more less than more (??). Like finding a rock star who can act or vice versa . As I said , Brian has written great ones at times. I agonize over every word in my lyrics to try to make them shine on their own , without music. But music will always have much deeper , intranslatable emotions than mere words . Like a lover's gaze .

By Passionatecarlita on Tuesday, May 23, 2000 - 08:46 pm:

Brian's lyrics were cute, endearing, child-like. I like Carl's lyrics much more. Thank goodness, Brian ran into Van Dyke. I love Brian's songs, but there were relatively few incidences of real poetry(IMO.)

By Gina on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 04:13 am:

It's always an interesting thing to consider. I wouldn't want to do without either. Haven't had a chance to find Faye yet, but I'll let you know when I do. By the way, you know that dancers would think we were both wrong! I think it's a question of whatever turns you on.

By Heathcliff on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 04:54 am:

Kate Bush is a proper artist. Listen to that songwriting and arranging!! In old videos, look at the way she choreographed her dances. In interviews too, she is obviously highly intelligent AND beautiful (gasp!).

Seriously, Kate Bush is an enormously talented musician who is often overlooked.

th-th-th-that's all folks!

By Bungalow Bill on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 10:57 am:

True , Gina , and Mime Artists might disagree...but how would we know ? (sorry , bad joke) As mentioned elsewhere , a line from a group from England , Stackridge (very Beatles/BBs) goes : "Could this be another BBs' interlude ...Brian Wilson at the piano in the nude." Great tune , but the line makes the song . Straying not too far off topic , any other nominees for a 'Briana Wilson' ? Great choice , Kate Bush . I'll stay with Fay .

By Linda on Wednesday, May 24, 2000 - 02:07 pm:

I'm a girl and I can't imagine a day gone by with out listening to the Beach Boys (Pet Sounds) Is that so unusual?

By Bungalow Bill on Thursday, May 25, 2000 - 11:11 am:

Not at all Linda , always good to add some MUSIC to your day. Unusual , is finding a Pearl Jam song (?) with a shred of melody !

By Maria on Thursday, May 25, 2000 - 04:31 pm:

I really wonder why there aren't any REALLY BIG female stars... not like Mamas and the Papas or Fleetwood Mac, but really big, Brian Wilson status musicians...can anyone think of any? Or maybe there are, but Brian Wilson seems pretty one of a kind. (not counting Mozart, of course)

By bernie barton on Monday, June 5, 2000 - 10:24 pm:

well, men in general have always been the musical 'geniuses' (brian hates that)...there is a gender difference in the brain involved...as far as women not liking the 'boys/brian, it's a little like saying women don't like the 3 stooges...an overgeneralization...in general, both sexes tend to dismiss the boys as lightweight pop and guy songs, based on the early years' works, and wouldn't know a pet sound from a pet rock...and your typical person on the street has little appreciation for nuances of harmony, etc...however, a good point has been made that it's the introspective stuff that women don't really as much clue to...brian has been referenced here as effeminate...wrong word- romantic is much more apropo...and something men are either comfortable with or very much not...and there has been a great myth perpetuated especially here in america, that women are the more romantic sex and that men are insensitive...wrong as can be...men are in general much more romantic and sentimental...and sensitive...brian had to put out that groundbreaking album over the objections of both capitol records and his own band...nobody 'got it'...including the public in 1966, which was looking for more car/surf/girl songs...the album was truly ahead of the curve...this experience in large part contributed to brian's breakdown into depression and drugs...one other band that did pick up on the album's significance was the beatles, who already knew there was 'something going on there' musically outside of pop superficiality...there was a great influence on the beatles' recordings- mainly in the use of harmonies...
as for the future of popularity for beach boys and brian, i was recently taken aback when my sister announced that my 9-year-old nephew is demanding beach boys cd's and concert seats along with the pokemon cards...and with no instigation from uncle bernie, either...maybe this IS a 'guy' thing...but i think really, it's just something you either 'get' when you are younger, or you don't, as with any music appreciation...

By Bungalow Bill on Tuesday, June 6, 2000 - 08:16 am:

Congrats Uncle Bernie ! You may have a child prodigy for a nephew . By the way ,the Stooges got the same bad 'rap' (as only hitting and slapping comedians ) as BBs (as only a surf band) . Both had genius beyond this initial skin-deep impression . One just needs to look deeper .

By Gina on Wednesday, June 7, 2000 - 05:08 am:

I cannot for the life of me see the appeal of the Stooges--they are definitley a guy thing. My theory is that men love that low-brow humor because they never got to express it enough growing up--there was always some female(mom or sister or aunt or teacher)trying to get them to behave. Or maybe not, maybe they would never grow out of it anyway--it is after all an expression of a certain side of the masculine nature--the same side that leaves toilet seats up! Men--gotta love 'em!

I guess I could try to look deeper into the stooges, but why bother. They are so visually unappealing.

But back to the subject of Brian-he is not the least bit effeminate-anybody saying that lacks discernment. Effiminancy or should that be effeminate-ness, is something you could see visually, and Brian does not act like that at all. He acts like a guy. But, as has been said on this thread a lot farther up, and as he himself has stated, he is sometimes in touch with the feminine side of his nature when he writes songs, and as Marilyn has been quoted as saying, "Brian was always very, very, very, tender." Sounds like the perfect man to me, 'cept that in his case he has had a little trouble accepting himself and his falsetto---if only he realized how women love it!

I have read before that musical prodigies are far more likely to be male-don't know if that has anything to do with musicality being more accepted and encouraged in boys than in girls or not. But we ARE wired differently.

The idea that we don't clue to introspective stuff, however, is off base, I think. Haven't people on this board argued many times that women respond to lyrics more than music? And it's sort of like saying that we aren't as deep as men. I think more men love the BBs because through Brian men express and experience emotions that maybe normally they keep underwraps. Certainly Brian wore his heart on his sleeve which is not normally the male M.O. Brian had a lot of courage.

By Bungalow Bill on Wednesday, June 7, 2000 - 09:21 am:

Gina , agreed Stooges are lowbrow humor (as Jim Carey was accused of , also) but the 'genius' lies in the fact that for better or worse no one else in the world could do what they did and make it work . Even if 'it' only worked for guys. Then , again I don't understand Julia Roberts' appeal and why millions of women pay to watch her do her trademark "Pretty Woman' squeal of delight in film after film ?
Anyway , musicians , have to enjoy spending hours and hours of their youth alone in a room practicing scales , rudiments , mathematical theory ,etc. Maybe this appeals more to a boy than a girl , or maybe the encouragement coming from parents is relative to sex ? But as I mentioned before , the mix is more equal in the classical world where even more study is required . Remember: most bands have confessed to being inspired to play rock to "get girls" , or as English groups said "pull birds" . This would be one less motivation for girls , who've been raised to be chase-ees rather than chasers (beer-fueled) , to lock themselves away , practicing .
Lastly , on a very serious topic: toilet seats ! When a man and woman are living under one roof and above one toilet , I give a firm 'one seat down ' on this tissue issue . Afterall , it will be used by both in that position roughly 75% of the time ! Thus , the Queen can safely hold court upon the Throne .

By Jeff on Wednesday, June 7, 2000 - 09:29 am:

Long live the Stooges!

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!!

By Bungalow Bill on Wednesday, June 7, 2000 - 10:51 am:

B. B. " Drop the vernacular !"
Jeff "Bernacula ?? THAT'S a doiby !"

By Gina on Wednesday, June 7, 2000 - 06:53 pm:

Jim Carey is a genius. I wouldn't spend one thin dime on Julia Roberts. That is the best argument for "seat down" that I have ever heard, and I am going go use it against the males in my life. Some interesting points about the difference between female involvement in rock and classical...Rock is about sex and classical is not. Parents would certainly encourage their daughters with talent to go classical rather than get up there and shake their thing doing rock. Plus, men are into attracting hordes of women, whereas women are into finding Mr. Right. It's biological!

Jeff, if you are going to try to get me to see the genius of Stooges the way you have done with Bukowski, I'm afraid I'm going to have the reaction of the professors we've talked about. You'd be going way to far there, boy!

By Bungalow 'Mama does dance and Daddy did R'n'R' Bill on Wednesday, June 7, 2000 - 07:41 pm:

Gina , glad to a-commode-date you ! Besides , I thought gentlemen were supposed to help a lady with her seat . I'd also agree about the classical/classy vs Rock/raunch theory of parents . Luckily , my parents much prefered R'n'R to any music in the '50's and got me into it . Rare , indeed ! So if I were Bungalow Billie Jean they still would've encouraged it in me . The thing is if a young girl went against the lack of encouragement , practiced guitar scales and such for 15 years or so she could be virtually guaranteed success as another Bonnie Raitt or a female Clapton or Santana rather than a Courtney 'guitar-as-prop' Love .

By Lisa on Saturday, June 10, 2000 - 03:50 pm:

I am a classicly trained female musician. I have a Master's in Performace in Classical Piano. I have been playing classical piano for years. However, for some reason, I know more about popular music than classical, because I always preferred listening to popular music. The main reason for this is that I feel that it relates more to my life. Anyway, to get to the point, the first Beach Boys song I heard was "Wouldn't It Be Nice" when I was six years old, and even then I was really moved by it. Actually, I like all the Beach Boys songs, but prefer the deeper, more introspective ones, like "Heroes and Villains" and "Surf's Up".

However, I have to admit that I do like listening to the music of female singers like Bonnie Raitt, Sheryl Crow and Sarah McLachlan mainly because I identify with the lyrics that they write. I have tried to write lyrics and I know that it is not easy.

I do believe musical harmony and melody are important though. I have always admired the harmony in such groups as Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, the Grateful Dead, and the Jefferson Airplane. Also, I believe chord structure is important and not easy to achieve. I greatly admire Brian Wilson's genius in writing unique chord changes and the like.

I actually like both musical geniuses like Brian Wilson and the Beatles, and female songstresses. My favorite female musician right now is Sarah MacLachlan, who also plays the piano very well and is great in concert. I believe the words to the music she writes is deeper than just the "I Love You" kind of stuff.

I also like the sensitive side of Brian Wilson, especially when he sings songs like "Don't Worry Baby." I agree that an important part of being a man is to have a sensitive side.

When I was growing up, the female friends I had did not listen to the same groups as I did, like the Who, Eric Clapton, Traffic, etc. I think that one of the reasons I liked them more was due to my classical background, which helped me appreciate more creative and original musical ideas. I also think that many girls growing up like to go along with the trend in order to be accepted.

Enough said!

Peace and Love!

By Bungalow Bill on Monday, June 12, 2000 - 07:22 am:

Lisa , at what age did you begin studying piano and what led you to the classical field ? Obviously , you loved the music , but as you've said you also loved Pop and Rock .

By Lisa on Monday, June 12, 2000 - 04:39 pm:

Bungalow Bill,
I started taking piano lessons when I was six years old. My parents encouraged me to study classical music and though I wasn't really crazy about it, I was interested enough and good enough at it to motivate me to practice every day.

Does that answer your question?

By Bungalow Bill on Tuesday, June 13, 2000 - 07:18 am:

Lisa , that would support what Gina was saying about girls being encouraged towards 'respectable' classical over 'rebellious' rock . Hence , perhaps , part of the reason there's a lack of female , instrumental virtuosos in Rock. You'd probably be of help on the topic of another new thread, where someone claims Brian heavily 'borrowed' classical themes for his music . I don't hear that at all , do you ?

By Betsy Ralph on Tuesday, June 20, 2000 - 01:24 pm:

I am of the female gender and love the Beach Boys! Always have, same with my sister, we are only teenagers now, but we were raised on them and other great oldies music!! And frankly new music just will never compare to the talent and purity of Beach BOys and other oldies music

By patsy on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 05:15 am:

I'm considerably older than betsy r. who posted just before me, but i too love the beach boys and must admit that over the years there have been few of my female friends who agreed with me.
I don't understand it because so much about the group is of such good spirit and even Brian's quote that leads this page is one of absolute beauty and joy. They appeared in New Jersey yesterday and i hope they were wildly appreciated in my home state!

By george's mom on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 08:17 am:

I grew up in the 60s and was big on the Beatles
(and the Monkees for a time). I don't think I would
have really gotten into the BBs, if it weren't for
all of the recent documentaries on Brian that
got me interested in checking out their music.
I always liked it a lot. But as an adult now, I
really appreciate the joyousness of their sound.

By Jon L on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 09:46 pm:

When I was watching "Lost Concert" on VH-1 tonight, I noticed that when the camera panned the audience, the girls were really getting into, while the guys were more subdued.

By fan on Monday, July 3, 2000 - 10:34 pm:

So went the 1960s. :)

By Better Off Dead on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 12:12 am:

Does anyone else have a totally empty and valueless life, happen to love the Beach Boys, read this board, listen to and love so much of their stuff, but feel deeply guilty about it? I mean, my life is wretched and disgusting, and I feel like I'm trying to cheat by filling it with something as good as the BBs/BW. I shouldn't be allowed to hear Don't Worry Baby if I don't have a girlfriend, or Surf's Up if I don't have some height to fall from. What am I thinking?

By Gina on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 05:07 am:

Jon L, that difference you saw could be the fact that women are allowed to express their feelings publicly and men still aren't. I know a guy who loves Brian so much(like lots of men on this board)--met Brian and spent time with him a long time ago, sees Brian as his best friend (he has a wife and children; but when he took his family to the Imagination tour, choked back his tears because he's a man. What a relief to be a woman and be able to cry, get silly, scream, whatever the occasion warrents.

By Gina on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 05:48 am:

Better off Dead, Brian has said that one of his purposes in making music is to make the listener feel loved. There's no reason to have any guilt about enjoying the BBs. You're a worthwhile person whether you have a girlfriend at present or not. Plenty of us are unattached. I don't know the details of your situation, so I may be very off base here, but when I discovered the BBs about a year ago, I was feeling lousy about my life. The joy I felt in Brian's music gave me the desire to change things, to work on developing my talents, and to take action to change a bad situation that I was allowing to control me. so maybe that can happen with you. Take some small corner of you life and apply the joy to it and things may get better for you. Hope so. Love and Mercy to you.

By paprikash on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 08:51 am:

Better Off,
Sometimes it is easier to look at portions of your life. Perhaps there are things you don't have that you want to work toward. But don't overwhelm yourself by downgrading your whole
life. You, in the end, are the only one who can pick yourself up and change things. Do something good for yourself today. Listen to God Only Knows
and think of the lives you've changed. Sometimes it helps to think of what you've given to others instead of what you don't have. You've made a difference living on this planet. Be proud of you.

By Jon L on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 08:52 am:

your last post moved me to tears! :-)

By Tears Of A Clown on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 09:06 am:

Please Jon, men still aren't allowed to express their feelings publicly! So cut it out!

By jolene on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 10:09 am:

I, too, discovered BB/BW during a very trying time in my life. Maybe that's part of its purpose, to help people find the light.

I've recently developed a fascination with Brian and find that "Pet Sounds" transports me to completely different place. My husband won't discuss it with me (not because he doesn't like them, but because he just doesn't know much about them -- he's into Pink Floyd depressive-type stuff).

It was a little disheartening to sign on here and find out not only am I not supposed to like the Beach Boys, but as a female, I'm too shallow and soulless to deeply appreciate music, art, movies or anything else. That's news to me as I've been doing it all my life.

By Jolene on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 10:15 am:

Yes, I think we've all felt our lives are useless at some point or another. But it's just an illusion. We're here for a reason even if we don't understand it at present.
Take joy in the music, and take care of yourself. You're worth it.

By Nelson Poynter on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 11:46 am:

Better Off Dead..NOT!!! You are a special person no matter what you are going through.We all go through tough times,"I've seen nights that seemed to last for years",Brian once sang.I have been "down" on and off for many years but every day I know is a new beginning.If you are negative,negative vibes surround you.So be positive as much as you can because everyday can be a constant battle.You are loved and a very special person.Take a look around you and look for the beauty that is everywhere and don't feel guilty about doing that;it is what it is here for.Remember,the smile you send out returns to you.Much Love & Mercy,Nelson

By Jon L on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 05:48 pm:

You know, every time I get discouraged by bad posters and trolls, I see posts like the ones above and I'm reaffirmed in my belief of how good most of the people are on this board.

(uh oh, better cut it out, I'm welling up again)

Jolene, Nelson, and Gina, you guys are the best!

By Gina on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 07:40 pm:

Thanks, Jon. cyber-hug. smiley face!

By Nelson Poynter on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 08:01 pm:

Glad to help.When it comes right down to it,all we really have is each other and ourselves.Take care ,what a wonderful evening.L&M Nelson

By paprikash on Tuesday, July 4, 2000 - 08:17 pm:

Better Off, I hope you've read our posts today.
You're already enough. You don't need a girlfriend to make you special. You already are.
Happy Fourth. Consider yourself group-hugged. *S*

By Anndrew on Wednesday, July 5, 2000 - 12:16 pm:

just got back from two weeks away from home and this board. First of all, a big thanks to Gina for looking after things, the board looks in great shape. I know there were a few tribulations, but I agree with Jon L, most people on this board are good, in fact very special. I think part of being a Beach Boys fan and especially posting on this board (and this is regardless of gender) is often opening up one's deepest emotions.

I think much of the unpleasantness on this board is caused by the limitations of the written word and misunderstandings this causes. Of course there are a few trolls to test us all, but this is probably or one or two out of the many hundred who post here, plus the many other viewers.

By Jill on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 11:17 am:

Just wanted, quickly, to defend myself. I am Jill (although not the one who thought Brian might be gay; I have no thoughts on that matter whatsoever), the girlfriend to whom Jeff referred in the first post of this thread. I would like to clarify that I do NOT hate the Beach Boys nor do I hate Brian Wilson. (However, I would like to say that I don't think Mike Love is a very nice person.) I might be ambivalent about or baffled by Jeff's devotion to Brian Wilson, but hate? No.

By Noble Surfer on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 04:27 pm:

Why do you think that Mike Love is not a nice person? Have you ever met him? Have you ever sat down with him and talked to him? I have and let me tell you something, Mike Love is not very talkative. He is a very, very nice person. He and I shared countless ideas and thoughts. He might not have the best humor and other skills, but he is very nice.

By vineet kochhar on Saturday, July 15, 2000 - 07:59 am:

I noticed several younger women in the audience
at Brian Wilson's concert last night in Philadelphia. I was surprised to see younger people at all. The men in the audience were mostly
middle aged with some exceptions myself included
(I'm 36). The womem could be just there because
of the men, granted - just as Brian Wilson's
wife is also younger, but I think they were
getting into the show as well, so I couldn't
make out who were the diehards.
The audience response was not as good as
the Beacon show I saw last year in NYC however.

By midwest fan on Saturday, July 15, 2000 - 02:19 pm:

How old is melinda?

By Jeff on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 11:16 am:

I guess Jill thinks Mike Love isn't a very nice person because she's been around me for a few years and heard me gripe about him. My views have been shaped by the things I have read and by the lackluster, moldy-oldy direction that the Beach Boys' music has taken, apparently under Mike's direction.

No, I don't know Mike personally, and if I did, perhaps I would have a different view. It's possible.

I'm glad you have a good relationship with the man, though, Noble Surfer. How is it that you know Mike?

By kitten on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 04:47 pm:

Im 21 yrs old and absolutely LOVE Brian and the Beach Boys! As a matter of fact, I cant seem to find anyone who lives anywhere near me that likes them. Every boy I meet is into other bands, especially of todays generation. Whenever Im in my car, and any song by them comes on, I BLAST IT! I Love Them! I cant get enough! Maybe someday, I'll meet a young guy who is just as into them as me. If I wasnt poor as dirt, I would follow Brian around and be at EVERY concert! The Beach Boys are my ALL TIME FAVORITE BAND! I just wish I coulda met them all. I think it would be groovy!

By mike on Friday, July 28, 2000 - 09:10 am:

i know what you mean about being a "young" Beach Boys fan. i'm 23 and i really got into the Beach Boys about two years ago. i was in a punk band at the time, and most of my friends didn't quite get why i liked the Beach Boys. but be that as it may, we started a side project band that was a Beach Boys cover band. okay, so we only had three songs that we did(Fun, Fun, Fun, This Whole World, and Do It Again), and yes, we sped them up to qualify at least as slightly punk, but it was our effort to sort of bring the music to the young kids at all our shows. and even though i guarantee that none of those kids had heard This Whole World before, well, they seemed to enjoy it. i don't know, i guess what i'm trying to say is that if you like the music, even if you can't always put into words what exactly you like or love about it, if you can get someone to put aside any sort of preconceived ideas that they might have about the beach boys for a few minutes, you might be able to get them to listen to their stuff in a new way. so, good luck!

By Victor C. on Tuesday, August 1, 2000 - 12:06 pm:

It's an interesting thing what was just posted by mike. In my case, for example, I am true oldies fan, listening from really obscure stuff like Shelley Fabares to incredible artists like the Four Tops, The Beatles and, obviously, the Beach Boys. Even though I am 21 years old (my birthday was yesterday...yay !), I have no appreciation for nowadays music, but strangely enough, I have this crazy, insane, absurd admiration for U2, a truly 80's - 90's band. GO figure...

By Jolene on Sunday, August 6, 2000 - 09:18 pm:

Hi Victor C.

I love U2 so much! Interesting. I wonder if there's a connection -- the spiritual, emotional nature of loving both U2 and Brian Wilson. They are both such overwhelming, emotional experiences that sweep you along, almost against your will at times. I think there's a spiritual connection as well. Bono is so open to the the lessons of the universe. It's a rare quality. Now, I'll tell you what I appreciate most about Brian Wilson's music -- aside from its incredible aural beauty: It's never pretentious and it's never cynical. What a gift.

By kitten on Tuesday, August 8, 2000 - 07:20 am:

Oh, I love today's generation of music too. My fav's are: Smash Mouth, Macy Gray, R.E.M, U2, Foo Fighters, etc. But, Oldies music, Brian's Music, just hits home and makes me wanna cry. I grew up with the 80's music, and I love it. I remember watching videos on MTV by the bands, Duran Duran, Aerosmith, Run DMC, and others. It's just that the boys i meet get kinda turned off by the fact that i enjoy oldies. They call me things like geek, nerd, dweeb, or, hey, you listen to that old sh*t? are u insane? oh well.

By NOBLE SURFER on Thursday, August 10, 2000 - 11:15 am:

The post above this one is tottaly uncalled for.

By kitten on Thursday, August 10, 2000 - 01:23 pm:

noble surfer:
r u talking about me or not a u2 fan? If it was me, im sorry, i didnt know i did anything wrong.

By NOBLE SURFER on Friday, August 11, 2000 - 12:46 pm:

no, the admin. already deleted the post I was talking about. It had really disgusting. Sorry if you thought I was referring to you.

By kitten on Saturday, August 12, 2000 - 07:06 am:

its okay. im just paranoid! sorry! :)

By Bungalow Bil on Saturday, August 12, 2000 - 09:59 pm:

A Lovestory:
While attending Brian concert with male musician friends I bought another copy of Roxy . I decided to give it to my new girlfriend . She knew almost nothing about BBs and wasn't sure if she liked it after the 1st listen . By a week later she became "an addict" , by her own words , and plays it everyday , singing along . Now Brian's returning to Ct. and we just got tickets to go together . Hmm , I have a feeling this show will become one of those once in a lifetime , magical , romantic moments . ...to be continued .

By Mr. Sun on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 11:10 pm:

My lady loves it.

By Mr. Sun on Wednesday, August 16, 2000 - 11:19 pm:

Any Rutles fans out there?
Deb & I would love to hear from 'em!
Also, any devout Smiley Smile/Wild Honey appreciator.
much love
Deb and Drew

By Bungalow 'Ouch! on Thursday, August 17, 2000 - 09:24 am:

Good ol' former Beach Boy Ricky Fataar as Stig
...such a great choice , not to forget Les Garcons de la Plage (the French BBs) . And the "accidentally sued himself " line perhaps really happened to Mike 'All You Need is" Love .

By Bungalow Bill on Friday, August 18, 2000 - 11:44 am:

A Lovestory Pt 2 :
Now that my new 'Brian addict' girlfriend plays Roxy and Pet Sounds everyday , her take ...she prefers the sound of the Brian's voice now ...tho' shaky and lower , to her it's more human ,earthy and soulful . She now has me re-examining my own thoughts . We all know and love Brian's gorgeous , young , soaring choir-boy voice , but that came out of him effortlessly . Now he has to muster his all to sing . Perhaps some 'new ears' can hear that quality , which we don't ?
I'd often wondered why Carl was my favorite singer when clearly Brian had the unbeatable voice. Maybe this is a clue . When you fight to sing as tho' your life depended on it , it shows.

By pop-b-gone on Tuesday, August 29, 2000 - 03:11 am:

What is a mystery to me, how come nowadays everyone likes to listen to misc. "modern boy bands" (example: Backstreet Boys and such) and don't mean just women (but mostly them).

By Andrew Bee on Tuesday, August 29, 2000 - 03:45 am:

Great question.

I know heaps of woman who say how sweet some of the lyrics are to 'Backstreet Boys' songs. They think they are the first bands to have ever done this. Maybe they are sweet lyrics? I won't judge, I've never heard a full album of their's and probabley wouldn't care to either.

I think the problem is that females tend to fall for the image, rather then the sound. Sure the quality of 'Boy' bands production is perfect, as most pop recordings are these days. But young women/girls fall for the 'Brad Pitt' look a-likes rather then music. Most people on this board, which seem to be mainly male, fell in love with the Beach Boys music, not Mike Love's hair do! Same for women. With the exception of those that like Denny.

Another thing. Most of 'Boy band' music sounds like it did 5 years ago, or 10 years ago. They're not interested in music creativity, most of them probabley don't write their own songs.

If you try and tell most young females, who only listen to 'Backstreet Boys', about the feelings and emotions of 'Beach Boys' music, they would probabley laugh at you. That's not to say there aren't any women out there who appreciate the BBs.

To sum up what I think:
'Backstreet Boys' music is not about creativity. It's about manufacturing an appropriate marketing tool for money making.

I imagine the Beach Boys never got a record deal because of their appearance, but rather Brian's creative mind and their endless harmonies.

By Bungalow Bill on Tuesday, August 29, 2000 - 06:12 am:

If by some Divine Intervention one of these boy bands could create a P.S. (after first learning how to write a song) they'd probably lose their teenage girl fan base the way the BBs did , too .

By NOBLE SURFER on Tuesday, August 29, 2000 - 12:30 pm:

The Beach Boys never did lose their women fans when PS came along.

By Bungalow Bill on Tuesday, August 29, 2000 - 06:45 pm:

I don't believe too many teenagers bought Smiley Smile . Do you think there would've been much screaming for Vegetables . (This would be after hearing P.S. , which didn't do too well with young fan base then , itself ).

By incognito on Thursday, August 31, 2000 - 09:31 pm:

As a woman and a BB fan, I found this thread
very interesting. I've been a very devoted
fan for most of my life--that's over 35 years
of BB obsession. I have to say I've met very
few real Beach Boys fans, male or female, so
it's always encouraging to find other fans,
new and old ones, on this board.

I've never met any female Beach Boys fans,
certainly no one like me, and I have no clue
why this is the case. I like reading anything
about Brian, and I love to find out about his
chord changes, etc. I approach the music both
emotionally and analytically--this isn't a
uniquely male thing, like a lot of the
postings seem to suggest.

What I've found through the years is that
people who are knowledgeable about music in
general--I mean the kind who can understand
music theory, etc.--are more likely to
appreciate Brian's music if they are
introduced to it. But you don't have to be an
expert to be moved by the music emotionally
and deeply. I started loving it when I was
just a child--and like most die-hard fans I
didn't know anything about chord changes.

After all these threads,though--I still don't
get why there aren't more "serious" women

By Bungalow Bill on Friday, September 1, 2000 - 08:23 pm:

Hello , Incognito . I think things will change . As you might have seen from a few of my last postings my girlfriend (and Boxer M's , I believe) 'discovered' and fell for Brian's music because of its spirituality . That aspect should appeal even more to women than men . In a couple situation all one need do is play songs like GOK , Please Let Me Wonder , Darlin , Don't Worry Baby , etc ,. Sing them to him/her a few times as if they're your own words and the door just may open .

By Gina on Saturday, September 2, 2000 - 11:34 am:

The thing about successful groups and individual acts today is that many are choreographed. If you were going to bring on the dancing boys and girls for Pet Sounds, Smile and the rest, it would have to be modern dance or ballet and that would be just too intellectual and esoteric for mass consumption. Where would they fit in the pelvic thrusts? And much of the music can't be danced to, or let's put it this way, dancing would add nothing. It's meant to be listened to, it's meant to do things to your head.

Bungalow Bill, you said something on another thread about the dumbing down of America being responsible for H Stern flourishing. Same is true of music--It's corporate controlled, so variety is lacking. Someone raised on top 40 today is more likely to be unaware of and unappreciative of music that doesn't make the cut to radio. America's taste in music has been successfully dumbed down.

This doesn't answer why women like the BBS less than men, if indeed that is true. I have no problem with the idea that men are more wired for music than women. I think in general that men are more aural and women are more visual. We're equal but we aren't the same.

By Bungalow Bill on Saturday, September 2, 2000 - 04:34 pm:

Definately , Gina , people have no clue that these 'dancing bear ' acts are lip syncing live . No one can sing (especially harmonies ) like that while aerobicizing . The tip-off is the headset mikes that hide their lips . I used to use one and stopped because it picks up breathing . Ever hear any breathing when they 'sing' wth them ? The soundman will turn them on at times for talking , to fool everyone . The fans buy it like wrestling fans buy ITS reality , Springer fans believe guests aren't acting , and Stern fans believe he's a comic genius ..talk about dumbed down ! That's self-service stupidity .

By incognito on Sunday, September 3, 2000 - 08:22 am:

Gina, did you ever see (or have you heard of
-- you may be too young) "Deuce Coupe," the
ballet that Twyla Tharp did in the early
1970s to Beach Boys music, most prominently
"Cuddle Up"? It was a great work, and it got
the Beach Boys good publicity from the kind
of press that always put them down.

Not that any of that would belong on stage
with them.

As for dumbing down of America, that doesn't
explain to me why the Beach Boys have been
unpopular and underappreciated in certain
circles. That can be traced back to the late
60s with the Smile fiasco and to Brian's
penchant for orchestration, etc., and the
group's general inability to understand
marketing (that's a whole noth

By Gina on Sunday, September 3, 2000 - 02:05 pm:

I'm not too young, but no I didn't see that. wish I had.

You know, what you said about unpopular and underappreciated...isn't that also true of classical? Most people do not listen to classical. True they may recognize that it's the product of very creative minds, but they don't really like it. The symphony in my town really struggles. Because to listen to it and really like it takes something that people today don't seem to have. Same thing about Brian. I've said this before but I'll repeat it: Brian is rare. the average person, expecially now being raised on popular music, is just not going to be able to hear him.

By Bungalow Bill on Sunday, September 3, 2000 - 04:42 pm:

Again , Gina's right , Brian's music would take undivided attention and independant thought . It's not the wallpaper , styrofoam music of today we're spoon-fed . Today's music is linked to brainless TV shows and movies (witness the Soundtrack CDs in the top 10) that you can see the ending coming from the trailer or opening credits . People don't seem to want to be touched too deeply , just don't have the time or energy ....or are hit with too much data .

By WMK on Monday, September 4, 2000 - 07:11 pm:

It must seem like "eons" since posting, "Why don't women like the BB's." However, the question remains appropriate, regardless of any time lapse that has transpired...even infinately so.
In response to this question, I would have to start off in disagreement with your premise in certain respects. In my humble opinion, it's clear that men and women have distinctly different "taste" not only where it concerns "musicians," but even the various genras music encompasses as well.
Not tooooo long ago, I had a steady intake of what I would classify as "heavy metal" music, even to a point where I was performing it for a living. Whenever I would attempt to conduct any kind of "in-depth" conversation with women about "hard rock," they would oftentimes express a preference for other types of music than that of "heavy metal." This would tend to be more of a rule, rather than an exception.
To address your post as it relates to the BB's specifically, I know women who enjoy BB's music, but (and I think this is the key) have a preference for songs other than the commercially successful "surf & hot rod type music." This was true of my wife who's older brother was a "gear head" and would go see the BB's in concert often. He would play their albums endlessly, featuring such songs as; "409,Little Duece Coupe, etc." By comparison, my wife remembers those softer more subtle melodies, with her favorite being, "God Only Knows." By the way, it was my wife who purchased my first BB's album.

As an aside: I've heard some discussion on the topic of "the dumbing down of society" and it's reflection on one's musical choice. Hoped to address this topic in detail in this post, but "time constraints" have prevailed once again. However, I will say this for now, I would view "contemporary choices" of music from a perspective of the "de-sensitization of one's soul" i.e. current culture/environment, rather than intellect or ignorance. This is a great subject and one that I have pondered over several times... well worth discussing in more detail!

By Jeff on Wednesday, September 6, 2000 - 11:38 am:

Hey WMK:

I really enjoyed reading your post. This is a heck of a thread, no? Regarding your observation that women who like the Beach Boys tend to like the non-surf and hot rod stuff, I suspect that this is often true. Sadly, other than on this board, I have never met any women who like any aspect of the Beach Boys' music. But let me be fair: Early on, someone noted that not many folks of either gender like the Beach Boys these days, and I think that's true.

So, my feeling now is that, yes, we live in a culture which simply does not value the type of music that the Beach Boys have given us (or, conversely, that their image represents). Gina, by the way, addresses this point very well early in the thread. As I recall, she suggested Western civilization would have to undergo a paradigm shift for Brian Wilson's music to find a greater audience.

Anyhow, gotta run. Seems like I alwasy have too much work to do!!

By Jeff on Wednesday, September 6, 2000 - 11:39 am:

Hey WMK:

I really enjoyed reading your post. This is a heck of a thread, no? Regarding your observation that women who like the Beach Boys tend to like the non-surf and hot rod stuff, I suspect that this is often true. Sadly, other than on this board, I have never met any women who like any aspect of the Beach Boys' music. But let me be fair: Early on, someone noted that not many folks of either gender like the Beach Boys these days, and I think that's true.

So, my feeling now is that, yes, we live in a culture which simply does not value the type of music that the Beach Boys have given us (or, conversely, that their image represents). Gina, by the way, addresses this point very well early in the thread. As I recall, she suggested Western civilization would have to undergo a paradigm shift for Brian Wilson's music to find a greater audience.

Anyhow, gotta run. Seems like I always have too much work to do!!

By Jeff on Wednesday, September 6, 2000 - 11:41 am:

Sorry about the double post -- I must be getting tired.

By Vinegar Tits on Friday, September 8, 2000 - 10:01 pm:

I'm a Women and I love the Beach Boys.

By curious on Monday, September 18, 2000 - 07:24 pm:

Please excuse me for asking, but what does the name "Vinegar Tits" mean?

By Jeff on Monday, September 25, 2000 - 04:17 pm:

Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you,
happy birthday dear thre-ad, happy birthday to you!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. It was one year ago today that I started this thread. There have been so many great and thoughtful responses here that I just had to put on my party hat and say thank you to everyone!

By WMK on Monday, September 25, 2000 - 05:02 pm:


Let me be the first to offer congrats. on your one year birthday. I think it an appropriate gesture of celebration to add another question to your magnificant thread.


How is it that songs like "Warmth of the Sun, She Knows Me So Well, Surfer Girl... and the likes don't have "mass-appeal" with women throughout the country. I was told that men are very appealing when they display an "air of vulnurability" about them. Who has shown this quality better than Brian Wilson? Or is my premise on this topic totally wrong?

By Gina on Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 04:39 am:

Jeff, you beat me to it. I had made a mental note to myself to recognize this thread and a couple others as their one-year anniversary came up, then forgot. So happy birthday! Did you ever think when you asked your innocent little question that it would get this response? And make people think so much?

WMK, I wanna answer that, but I gotta go to work.

By Jeff on Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 08:22 am:

Thanks, WMK and Gina! WMK, that's a good question you're asking there, buddy. I can't wait to see the responses.

Gina: Nope, I never expected this sort of response. It is really a delight to see people going back and forth on this issue. There have been so many thoughtful and provacative responses.

Okay, it's back to work for me. I'm writing a statistics paper and -- sniff! -- have no time to be tooling around the board.

By WMK on Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 04:45 pm:


In honor of your 1st birthday (more may be forthcoming) on your initial post, I thought it an appropriate and honorary gesture to choose a topic similar to your original post.

Today as I read my reply to you on the "Smile" post, I sense it may have given the impression that I was "lecturing." If so, that was not my intended purpose, and apologize if that was the case. Yesterday I was on a roll.

By Back Chat on Tuesday, September 26, 2000 - 07:02 pm:

To the Question.

Women like men, who sing like men.

Did I tell you before that Brian Wilson sang in a falsetto kind of way. The thing about it is this. Some women prefer an Elvis type singer, who sings manly. Not someone who sounds like they're 12 years old.

My 2 sense.

By Ron on Wednesday, September 27, 2000 - 12:16 am:

Just wanted to say happy birthday here!!!! Hey listen. There were plenty of babes rockin out and swaying at the Hollywood Bowl last week! I was surprised and pleased! Maybe women are getting with it after all!!!! See, us guys can relate to Brian. He's got lots and lots of vunerability but at the same time he's ALL man. Like the REST of us!!!!!

By SURFER GIRL on Sunday, October 1, 2000 - 08:47 pm:

I was a girl rockin at the bowl Sunday night 9-24. It was the most magical night of music. I love the Beach Boys and listen to them every day. I think it portrays without a doubt the true California surf and sun and the ultimate romanticism and just fun. Brian was amazing and will be forever a true talent in our lifetime. I LOVE THE BEACH BOYS!!!

By drummergal on Sunday, October 1, 2000 - 10:37 pm:

I was rockin' at the Hollywood Bowl too....Surfer Girl you speak the gospel truth!!!! REAL WOMEN LOVE THE BEACH BOYS!!!

By SheilaDeck on Monday, October 2, 2000 - 03:59 pm:


By IntheBuff on Tuesday, October 3, 2000 - 12:41 pm:

This girl wishes that Dennis Wilson had posed in the buff for Playgirl years ago. Man, I think his body was primo, before he went downhill. I would have paid plenty to take a peek at his "PACKAGE". What do you think Girls?

By Emily on Tuesday, October 3, 2000 - 12:53 pm:

go to the Dennis Wilson Commune page and click on "barenaked beachboy"...there's a pretty picture for all the ladies.

By Pamela on Tuesday, October 3, 2000 - 07:55 pm:

I'm a 25 year old female and listen to
the Beach Boys almost EVERY DAY. The
music really makes me feel good. Pet
Sounds is my favorite album and Brian
is my favorite Beach Boy. (I love his
voice!) Why would you ask why women
don't like the Beach Boys?

By Bungalow Bill on Wednesday, October 4, 2000 - 09:02 am:

Well , Pamela , I believe the question meant 'in general' . But more and more I'm starting to feel that most women would love Pet Sounds if they had a chance to hear it . Men tend to seek out 'unknown' bands or LPs as some sort of sport or hobby and so would come across P.S. more readily . My girlfriend fell in love with the spirituality of P.S. much more quickly than I originally had .

By Sher on Wednesday, October 11, 2000 - 09:32 pm:

I am a woman and I "LOVE The Beach Boys :)In fact a young 25 year old.... :) I have loved The BB's scince i was 17. :) They are sooo wonderful. I get lost into my own little world when I hear them... and Brian Wilson is a genious!! :) So all u guys out there.... :) There are some woman who know good music too :) So lets all be happy and keep on listenin' to the greatest music around! :)

By amazonlucy on Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 09:12 pm:

It never occured to me that women didn't like the beach boys. I am a 21 year old girl and I can't remeber a time when I didn't like the beach boys, I have grown up liking them, and I am listening to them as I type this. It could be that girls in my generation don't like them, I guess I don't really have any girfriends that like them now that I think of it. It seems strange to me that someone wouldn't at least appreciate their beautiful voices and songs. I just wanted to say as a girl I appreciate them, my sister used to be obbsessed with them, and I know my mother appreciates the music too. So for all of you who think that women don't like the beach boys you are wrong. I think the music of the Beach Boys just needs to be introduced to a new generation of girls, and if they don't like it they will miss out on some great music. Their loss not mine!

By Farmers Daughter on Monday, October 16, 2000 - 06:04 pm:

Amazonlucy: YOU GO GIRL!!!!

By Mike_smiley (Mike_smiley) on Wednesday, December 6, 2000 - 01:17 pm:

Women don't like The Beach Boys???? What are you talking about? There are tons of women at Beach Boys concerts! And besides, just read the above and you'll read stuff posted from female fans. My girlfriend likes the Beach Boys, and so does my mom!

By Andrew Bee (Andrew_bee) on Thursday, December 7, 2000 - 06:35 am:

Many of the Beach Boys songs are written from a male point of view (obviously). E.g) When I Grow Up (To Be A Man) and I'm Waiting For The Day. Does this ever bother our female listeners? Because I can't imagine females singing "Will I look for the samething in a women that I dig in a girl". It's not that you can't appreciate the music or anything, it's just that maybe you might find it a little strange. How do women feel about that?

Due to the fact that the words are written from a males point of view. I guess that's one reason why there might me more male fans.

By Pamela (Pamela) on Thursday, December 7, 2000 - 11:02 am:

I don't think so. If that were the case, then women wouldn't like the Beatles, Bob Dylan, Backstreet Boys, or whoever. Music has always been male-dominated, back to classical music (at least European music, anyway), and lyrics tend to be written by men with a male point of view. Yet women enjoy this music as much as men do.

I don't think "Waiting for the Day" is a particularly masculine song, by the way. You could just as easily change the sex and have a woman singing about waiting for a guy to get over a broken heart before trying to have a relationship. That's true of a number of Beach Boys and other artists' songs: unless they're specifically about being a man or woman, they can be rendered by either sex and have a similar meaning.

My own view is that the Beach Boys always had as many women fans as male fans. Where the sexes differ is the number of men who are intensely interested in Brian Wilson and the way he put music together. There are more men than women who hero-worship Brian because of his musical ability in songwriting, arranging, and record production. There are less women on the whole who are interested in those things and therefore realize the scope of Brian's accomplishments. I happen to be one who does, but in going to Brian's shows the past couple of years, I realize I'm in the minority: there are more men at the shows, and some of the women they force to go with them look like they're very indifferent (looking at their watches, going to the bar, etc.). I think that's where the diffence is: more women own the Greatest Hits, more men own everything ever recorded by Brian and the Boys, including bootlegs.

Although in the population as a whole, Beach Boys and Brian Wilson fans of either sex are also a minority; it's really a cult following. You could just as easily have a thread about why more men in general don't like the Beach Boys, or why more people in general don't like (or ever bothered learning about) the Beach Boys.

By Mike_smiley (Mike_smiley) on Thursday, December 7, 2000 - 04:25 pm:

Actually, Backchat, not all women like a "manly-man" singer, to put it similar to your quote. And Brian doesn't sing like a 12 year old girl. Your 2 "sense" will be overlooked by many.

These are my 2 cents.

By Farmersdaughter (Farmersdaughter) on Thursday, December 7, 2000 - 05:16 pm:

I love When I grow up...The harmonies are excellent as much of that time was. I don't really look at should it be for a boy or should it be for a girl. I don't know but that does not bother me. I just love the music.

By Andrew Bee (Andrew_bee) on Thursday, December 7, 2000 - 07:13 pm:

Pam and Tammy,

I'm gald you both think that way, and that it doesn't turn you off. I was just curiouis to know if it did.

Rock on!

By Farmersdaughter (Farmersdaughter) on Thursday, December 7, 2000 - 07:29 pm:

Cool Andrew. I'm glad to help.. Bee Good!

By Gina (Gina) on Friday, December 8, 2000 - 10:10 am:

I'd rather hear men singing about guy things than women singing about girl things any day.

By Farmersdaughter (Farmersdaughter) on Friday, December 8, 2000 - 10:32 am:

Good point Gina.....

By Andrew Bee (Andrew_bee) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 03:47 am:

I had this group assesment I had to do a few months ago, and a couple of people somehow got on to the topic of the song "Kokomo" (don't ask me how?- I swear I didn't bring it up), and I could just tell these people didn't know the slightest thing about the Beach Boys. I was going to expload and give them a lecture on Brian Wilson. I said to myself "let em' bee, I'm wasting my time", especially when it seems to be harder to convert women, then men.

Happy New Year to all the fine Ladies aboard this board!

By Gina (Gina) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 07:15 am:

Andrew, you're not wasting your time. A lot of us got turned on to the BeachBoys by something we heard. In my case it was reading Leonard Bernstein's and Paul McCartney's comment's that got me interested. If you tell people how other musical giants feel about Brian, sometimes that's all it takes. Hey, you're young--you should be a zealot! Don't leave 'em in darkness!

By Farmersdaughter (Farmersdaughter) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 08:28 am:

Tell em what for Andrew! Happy New Year! LOL

By Susan (Susan) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 09:57 am:

Andrew, show the women a few pictures of Denny, then play them "Got To Know The Woman" and "Forever"...that oughtta do it!

By Beth (Beth) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 12:06 pm:

No, no Susan...Show them some pictures of Carl and play them "Long Promised Road," and "Going On," or "God Only Knows" and "Time To Get Alone" or "Feel Flows"...That will definitely do it! :-)

By Farmersdaughter (Farmersdaughter) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 12:17 pm:

No, No, No ladies show them a picture of Brian and Play, "Don't Talk", "Hushabye", or "Surfer Girl"!!!!

By Andrew Bee (Andrew_bee) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 03:07 pm:

Serious ladies, I didn't know these other females all that well at the time, so I wasn't gonna let it out. Next time, thanks to you ladies, I'll bring my Beach Boys photo album with me!

Best wishes to all the fine ladies on this board.

By Susan (Susan) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 04:40 pm:

*G* I think you'll need the album - because there is a certain attraction to each of the Wilson brothers. You'll need to show each brother so as to appeal to the broadest range of tastes...

By Farmersdaughter (Farmersdaughter) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 06:02 pm:

They are all, well, there is something about them all:
Brian: the Heart
Denny: The sexy bad boy
Carl: Sweet and innocent

mmmm.... Those Wilson boys!

By Paprikash (Paprikash) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 06:21 pm:

FD, you hit on each one of their attractions;
at least for me. That Brian....what a sweetie.

By Farmersdaughter (Farmersdaughter) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 06:45 pm:

That Brian...... :)

By Andrew Bee (Andrew_bee) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 06:52 pm:

Let's not forget Wild Honey....she's a sweet sweet, a honey bee. Makes me wanna eat, eat, a bit of honey.

By Paprikash (Paprikash) on Monday, January 1, 2001 - 07:00 pm:

Andrew! Down boy! We're talking about
raging FEMALE hormones here!

By Eastcoastgirl (Eastcoastgirl) on Friday, January 5, 2001 - 11:56 am:

I'll tell ya what, just give me Dennis and he doesn't have to play anything!!!

By beth (Beth) on Friday, January 5, 2001 - 06:07 pm:

Seems to me that plenty of us women like the Beach Boys... :-)

By Andy (Andy) on Saturday, January 6, 2001 - 02:24 am:

Yeah, we've come to that conclusion about 3 ice-ages ago.

By Andy (Andy) on Saturday, January 6, 2001 - 02:28 am:

Sorry for that. I'm just pissed, cuz' Surfer Boy and Bungalow Bill find my thread formulation SO funny.

By Bungalow Bill (Bungalow_bill) on Saturday, January 6, 2001 - 09:41 am:

Andy , I dig your threads !
We're pretty co-ed here now with registration and all , so this topic is moot (something I learned from Election fiasco) .

By Andy (Andy) on Tuesday, January 9, 2001 - 01:32 am:

OK, whatever. Peace?

By Bungalow Bill (Bungalow_bill) on Tuesday, January 9, 2001 - 06:39 am:

Yo , peace . Let's give chance a piece .